England Team v Ireland at Twickenham

[Pete]

England: 15 Delon Armitage, 14 Mark Cueto, 13 Mathew Tait, 12 Riki Flutey, 11 Ugo Monye, 10 Jonny Wilkinson, 9 Danny Care; 1 Tim Payne, 2 Dylan Hartley, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Simon Shaw, 5 Steve Borthwick (capt), 6 James Haskell, 7 Lewis Moody, 8 Nick Easter.
Replacements: 16 David Wilson, 17 Lee Mears, 18 Louis Deacon, 19 Joe Worsley, 20 Paul Hodgson, 21 Toby Flood, 22 Ben Foden.

[tigermad]

Glad to see that Cole and Moody have retained their places in the starting XV with Deacon and Flood on the bench. That means we should have Ben Youngs and Jordan Crane available for selection for the Saints game this weekend.

[fleabane]

Unimaginative, as per usual.

1,5,10,11 all very lucky, based on performance alone!

[Tiger Ghost]

As an Englishman I would have loved to have seen Youngs on the bench but the Tiger in me is relieved he should be available to us for Saturday. Its also good for our chances at Franklins Gardens that Foden will be on England duty. Just a shame that Lawes will be playing for Northampton and we will be without Louis but I guess we can't have it all

As far as England goes, it would be easy to pick holes in the team but it's only right to give combinations playing time together to develop the understanding needed. Practice is one thing but the real thing is another. Perhaps we should judge England at the end of the 6N's

[maskedsquid]

1,5,10,11 all very lucky, based on performance alone!

Not sure I agree with that really.

Borthwick has been much better than expected so far, although admittedly last week was not as good as the Welsh display on a personal level.
Equally Payne, who rightly comes if for a lot of stick usually, hasn't done too badly this championship. And there's no stand-out alternatives.

Wilko and Monye can consider themselves a little fortunate, but the game plan we employ and the slow ball we produce means they would struggle to do much else anyway.
I'd rather see us change the game plan and play some fast flowing stuff, but that is not about to happen so it doesn't really matter who plays at 10 as they will be waiting an age for the ball to be produced! Hopefully we'll change that this weekend though and smash rucks hard and in small groups, but I won't be betting on it....

[Tiger Ghost]

Unimaginative, as per usual.

1,5,10,11 all very lucky, based on performance alone!

My concern with Monye is that he doesn't appear to have learnt anything from his mistakes in the Lions tests as he is still carrying the ball in his inside arm

[westy154]

Whilst I would like to have seen a few tinkerings, the point made by someone on the BBC Sport site is a valid one: To drop players for the awful Rome showing, because they strictly followed their orders, would be somewhat wrong. The selection didn't stink up that game, the managament stunk that game.

I expect Ireland to come out hard and fast, and I expect England to lose unfortunately. If that is the case it will be interesting to see how we choose to play, especially if we are chasing the game, and how the next team looks if we do lose.

[bluntiger]

The Ireland team show no weaknesses. If there is any area where England will need to get an advantage it is the front row. So we will need Hartley and Cole to be on top form but Payne dilutes any advantage for England.

The back row for Ireland in Wallace/Heaslip/Ferris looks immense and will more than test Moody/Haskell/Easter.

A bit surprised that Ireland have chosen not to go with O'Gara at 10 but it does show their ambition.

[g]

And the only way Wilkinson is going to be removed from the England team is by injury.

It doesn't matter how well Flood plays for his club he will not get a starting England place while ever "king Jonny" is lurking around. So unless Wilkinson gets himself injured Flood will not start in the forseeable future.

Wilko is Johnno's favourite as is Borthwick he will not drop either while ever they remain fit. It really is a sad state of affairs which will get England nowhere.


Johnson does NOT pick players on form. Instead he prefers also rans who he hopes will dig him out of a hole.

[vinniechan]

Wilko is a player who broke all the Test and England record by playing in the wrong position in his entire life: he's a 12 not a 10. (Think about it, his greatest attributes are madatory for a 12 but not a 10, and the only 12 who ever played well inside him since 2003 was Catt).
The automatic selection of Jonny really pains me: 12's are not picked on the basis they are not compatible with Jonny, 10's in competition with Jonny are pressed to wear 12 (then dropped at their first of sign weakness: think of Barkley, Geragty etc). I wonder why our best 12 is a kiwi (who miraculously made such an impact only touching the ball 6 times).
Borthwick is not a bad player this 6N, but the England team under him have no sense of urgency full stop.
As much as I love to see Ben Young making his mark at Test level, England seems to have talent in turning promising young scrum halves into under par players (first Wigglesworth, now Care is showing the symptoms and I recall some mention on this forum about Ellis's experience in the England camp).
England need to better up other wise they're getting destroyed against Ireland. Geordan is the only intelligent full back left. Everyone now likes to boot the ball first and worry later.

[G.K]

I didn't think Payne was as bad as I expected against Italy but I still don't understand why Freshwater or maybe Golding wasn't called up.

Borthwick had a better game against Wales I admit but I still wouldn't have him anywhere near the squad let alone as Captain. He will remain a weak link and his post match interviews are pure fantasy.

Back row is as good as it can be I suppose and I prefer Worsley as a replacement to Armitage (although I'd rather see Croft back). Not convinced about Easter either but he seems to be another Johnno favourite.

As for Wilkinson then yes he needs to raise his game and stop playing full back. Armitage needs to also raise his game and start playing full back properly again.

A lot will depend on the breakdown and how the centres perform and hence who is on the front foot.

Who's the ref?

[bluntiger]

Who's the ref?

Back to a SH referee - shades of 2009 AI's?

England vs Ireland at Twickenham
Referee: Mark Lawrence (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Christophe Berdos (France), David Changleng (Scotland)
Television match official: Carlo Damasco (Italy)
Assessor: Michel Lamoulie (France)

[Tiger Ghost]

Borthwick really frightened me with his interview after the Italy match. If he was saying what he truly believes then we have real problems because we have a captain who cannot see what is really going on around him.

I would think that a captain has to be astute and be able to get his team playing a different way when plan A isn't working. Borthwicks comments indicate that astuteness is not a quality he possesses

[Darc Tiger]

A good side, so long as we dont kick so much (and as badly) as we did against Italy. But I would have gambled on Mullan at loosehead. At home England should win, but I have a feeling we wont.

Good to have Youngs and Crane back for the crunch game against Saints. Gives us a very strong backrow, and our magician at 9.
O & U!

[westy154]

It doesn't matter how well Flood plays for his club he will not get a starting England place while ever "king Jonny" is lurking around.

That's certainly what I was shouting when he missed those easy kicks against Italy.