British League

Osprey in Leicester · Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:57 pm

After the success of the Welsh teams against the English teams this weekend (3-1) albeit against weaker opposition what do you think about a british league ?
Having two divisions with the celtic clubs all starting off in division 2, then having promotion and relegation with 3 up and 3 down.
Would the English rugby fan be interested ?

Hans Hullabaloo · Post by **Hans Hullabaloo** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:06 am

kinda ruining the H cup, we play the welsh in to tournaments already. plus it would the RFU a excuse to introduce central contracts. could work though.

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:36 am

Sounds interesting in theory.

A few questions though?

How many teams would be in the two divisions and how would it be decided who would go in each division? How many Division 1 teams would be promoted to that League initially, and in future?

There may well be less games for the teams as would occur with the Conference System mooted before on this forum. Do you envisage friendlies being played say during the internationals to make up for lost income?

One way round the issue of lost income would be to still play 22 games. With a draw each year to see who the extra games are played against, on top of the usual home and away draw.

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:43 am

I see your issues, Hans. Although if the RFU are to introduce central contracts then I feel that they must compensate clubs for the loss of their key players. As loss of key players to central contracts would mean lost revenue un less clubs could then bring in imports.

I know that would be very difficult to achieve, perhaps impossible, as somebody said when I talked about parachute money from the RFU for less games played when player injuries were talked about recently. However, if not the clubs would kick up a lot of fuss and there would be a re-enactment of recent strife between the PRL and the RFU. The RFU will have to adapt on this as must the PRL on certain other issues, too.

dailywaffle · Post by **dailywaffle** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:37 am

Hi OiL

The English rugby fan, in principle, would be supportive (I am assuming that the EDF would be scrapped).

Not so sure about the owners; no club will sign up to a '3 down' season. A two conference structure (2 x eight) would therefore be necessary.

The Welsh fans would be very positive, but the Irish and Scots furious !

I don't think revenue loss would be much of an issue with the conference structure, you could see a 22 game season if intra-conference you played 'home and away' and inter-conference 'home or away'.

mightymouse · Post by **mightymouse** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:57 pm

bit odd having the likes of Munster and Leinster in div 2 - whilst Worcester and Quins started in Div 1 ??

Surely the top half of each division into the Div one etc

Osprey in Leicester · Post by **Osprey in Leicester** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:01 pm

mightymouse wrote:bit odd having the likes of Munster and Leinster in div 2 - whilst Worcester and Quins started in Div 1 ??

Surely the top half of each division into the Div one etc

The reason I said that was because the English clubs would be up in arms about if they had to drop into a 2nd division, so if like Dailywaffle says have 2 up 2 down the cream would soon rise to the top.

Borders I beleive are on the brink of going under so that would leave 22 teams, you could have 2 divisions of 11 teams with one team having a free weekend every matchday which would help with player burn out !
And scrap cup matches just have the European cup.

mightymouse · Post by **mightymouse** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:07 pm

sounds quite a good scheme to me especially the scrapping the cup bit

the only downside I see is in the second year when lets say for arguments sake Munster and Leinster go up and Worcs and Quins come down - the bulk of the celtic teams would now be playing in a weaker not a stronger league - It would benefit the top English teams more as their league gets strengthened but not the celts.

Osprey in Leicester · Post by **Osprey in Leicester** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:14 pm

mightymouse wrote:sounds quite a good scheme to me especially the scrapping the cup bit

the only downside I see is in the second year when lets say for arguments sake Munster and Leinster go up and Worcs and Quins come down - the bulk of the celtic teams would now be playing in a weaker not a stronger league - It would benefit the top English teams more as their league gets strengthened but not the celts.

Agree with that but say within 4 years you would have the strongest teams in division 1. I know Id rather be playing the likes of Quins rather than Borders even if it was in Divison 2.

All pie in the sky was just wondering if you would like to be playing the likes of Munster, Llanelli, Ulster, Ospreys on a weekly basis rather than the Worcester's and Quins of this world.

mightymouse · Post by **mightymouse** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:11 pm

i agree with anything that will make NH rugby stronger and better quality - All of the countries need harder rugby not more rugby. So stronger leages with less matches obverall would definately be an improvement for everyone

banbury tiger · Post by **banbury tiger** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:50 pm

sc.rap the edf each nation have their own knock out cup make british leaguelike super 14 then own season like down under e.g currie cup or nz league.
then you could have more rest and have the similiar seasons like martyn thomas wanted ! (rfu)

k1 · Post by k1 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:56 pm

mightymouse wrote:bit odd having the likes of Munster and Leinster in div 2 - whilst Worcester and Quins started in Div 1 ??

Surely the top half of each division into the Div one etc

If top half of Magners league went into div 1 and bottom into div 2, Munster and Leinster (being 9th and 7th respectively) would find themselves in div 2

I agree with what you're saying though

dailywaffle · Post by **dailywaffle** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:09 pm

OiL

I think you may have misunderstood my 2 x conference post (sorry if it made no sense !).

With 2 x conferences of equal strength, you avoid both relegation (very thorny) and the vaguely farcical sight of Ospreys et al putting 100 points on Div 2 teams. The 2 x conference champions play off for the championship. The alternative of Div 1 and Div 2 avoids playoffs, but would bring a couple of years of chaos and those 'relegation' arguments.

The numbers do stack up:

Include the Welsh regions only; 2 x eight (with inter conference play to raise revenue).
Or, add Irish provinces; 2 x ten.
Possibly add 2 x Scottish Districts; 2 x eleven (as you suggest).

I think we would welcome the Welsh with open arms. The same could not be said of the Scots, sorry, but there is no real Anglo-Scot club tradition and they are not box office.

The Irish certainly are box office, but some might prefer to keep matches against Munster/Leinster/Ulster 'special', i.e. HEC only. Add to this the IRFU stance on retaining players and I wonder if this could only ever really be an Anglo-Welsh project.

jackothelad · Post by **jackothelad** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:51 pm

I think we would welcome the Welsh with open arms. The same could not be said of the Scots, sorry, but there is no real Anglo-Scot club tradition and they are not box office.

The Irish certainly are box office, but some might prefer to keep matches against Munster/Leinster/Ulster 'special', i.e. HEC only. Add to this the IRFU stance on retaining players and I wonder if this could only ever really be an Anglo-Welsh project.[/quote]

Ulster, Munster and Leinster would never agree to being dumped into the second division. A slightly understrength Ulster side minus players like Trimble ,Neil Best, Simon Best, Tommy Bowe and Matt McCullough annihilated a full strenght Ospreys side 43 - 7 just last week. get real. If you were moving teams on the basis of last years performance, Ulster , Leinster and Munster finished one , two and three in theat order. I would rather see Ulster playing Leicester or Wasps than the Ospreys or the Dragons but we have to make the best of what we each have.

Osprey in Leicester · Post by **Osprey in Leicester** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:38 pm

A slightly understrength Ulster side minus players like Trimble ,Neil Best, Simon Best, Tommy Bowe and Matt McCullough annihilated a full strenght Ospreys side 43 - 7 just last week. get real.

How much did you bung the ref for that match ?