What is a forward pass?

[Rugbygramps]

The problem with basing it purely on whether the ball ends up further up the pitch is that this would mean you couldn't legally pass the ball to someone behind you if you're both running fast enough.

I’m sorry you’ve completely lost me there. So you’re saying that if 2 players are running at full chuff and the player with the ball passes it to someone who is 2 metres behind him you wouldn’t be able to pass the ball backwards

[northerntiger]

At the risk of confusing things yet further, it seems to me to be a question of angles. If the ball travels at an angle relative to the passer of less than 90 degrees, it is a legal pass, ie backwards. If exactly 90 degrees it is a flat pass, therefore legal. If 91 degrees or greater, it is forward. Where it actually ends up is irrelevant

[loretta]

The problem with basing it purely on whether the ball ends up further up the pitch is that this would mean you couldn't legally pass the ball to someone behind you if you're both running fast enough.

And how fast would that be?

[bendy]

The problem with basing it purely on whether the ball ends up further up the pitch is that this would mean you couldn't legally pass the ball to someone behind you if you're both running fast enough.

And how fast would that be?

Watch the video on pg1 of this thread which illustrates this problem perfectly. A player can literally throw the ball backwards over their own head and it can still travel "forwards" to a team mate if all we're doing is measuring 'forward' relative to the pitch.

[Not a jock]

Hi,

I owe you an apology, the the laws have been changed. There was a section on the nature of play that described a ball being passed towards the try line of the team passing. This has been removed and the definition of a “throw forward” in the definition section of the IRB 2023 laws now says “when a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward”.
So to be fair to the IRB the definition in the 2023 laws is now relative to the direction of the arms of the player passing. This is good clarification, even if it locks in that movement of the ball forward is allowed due to momentum of the body whilst the arms are not pointed forward.

Please could you post a link to this law change or point us towards (not fowards) it? Ta

[loretta]

The problem with basing it purely on whether the ball ends up further up the pitch is that this would mean you couldn't legally pass the ball to someone behind you if you're both running fast enough.

And how fast would that be?

Watch the video on pg1 of this thread which illustrates this problem perfectly. A player can literally throw the ball backwards over their own head and it can still travel "forwards" to a team mate if all we're doing is measuring 'forward' relative to the pitch.

To be honest, I don’t need to. It’s a simple sum, distance travelled on foot minus distance covered by ball in a set amount of time. If we assume that the latter is always less than the former, we have to accept that the old adage that the ball travels faster than the man is false. I don’t.

A rugby pass is not the same as chucking it backwards over your head.

[Old Hob]

Doncha just love this game!

[northerntiger]

[/quote]

To be honest, I don’t need to. It’s a simple sum, distance travelled on foot minus distance covered by ball in a set amount of time. If we assume that the latter is always less than the former, we have to accept that the old adage that the ball travels faster than the man is false. I don’t.

A rugby pass is not the same as chucking it backwards over your head.
[/quote]

I’m not sure your sum is actually correct. Also, in terms of forward momentum, a rugby pass is exactly the same as chucking it backwards over your head.

[johnthegriff]

In the days when Rugby was a simple game there was no such thing as a flat or level pass because they were forward, a legal pass was backwards and a bloke with a whistle let you know if you got it wrong, no argument no conjecture!

[loretta]

Ok. So it seems that the laws of the game have changed and the definition of forward is now relative to the player and not the pitch. We no longer have to concern ourselves with whether the ball is travelling in the direction of the opposition’s posts, only with whether it is travelling forwards relative to the point of view of the player. Now, bearing in mind that we no longer have the reference frame of the pitch to determine “forwards”, how does the catcher shift the ball to the back of the maul in a catch and drive lineout? When he receives it, the 9 turns to face across the pitch and passes the ball to his 10, who he is now facing. Perhaps the 10 now takes part in a looping training ground move, running laterally and passing to a centre as he runs towards him? These are just a few instances where, if you remove the reference frame of the pitch from the definition, they are all forward passes. Here’s one to ponder. Player A stands on the centre spot facing his own posts, player B runs past him to the oppositions 22. Player A passes the ball to player B, while maintaining his position and still facing his own posts. If we no longer have to consider the pitch as a frame of reference, is this a forward pass?

Simply, remove the frame of reference of the pitch from the definition of “forward”, and the game becomes unmanageable.

[northerntiger]

yes, because player B has run past him!

[loretta]

yes, because player B has run past him!

But he’s received the ball “behind” player A.

Ludicrous, right? But it’s what you get when you remove the idea that “forwards” is towards the opposition’s try line. There is no in front of the player, unless it’s from the point of view of player A

[northerntiger]

No he has not. He is in front of player A. The direction A is facing is irrelevant.

[Offside]

Hi,

Link the the definition in the World Rugby laws site:
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/s ... ow+forward

[loretta]

No he has not. He is in front of player A. The direction A is facing is irrelevant.

So, how do you define “in front “?