LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Tiglon]

How many people are successful at interview for a job whilst employed elsewhere and while working their notice immediately start working for their new employer, are involved in interviewing and appointing staff even before their new contract starts. I would have thought that more unlikely when moving from one continent to another. Rugby is a relatively small world, I suggest that any subordinate staff appointed and existing staff retained was probably done by someone other than McKellar who probably had to find grounds to reject the club's choice rather than selecting his own people. Once in the job however he has more say.

Agreed. McKellar has made mistakes but I don’t think Dickens and Richardson are his ‘fault’ as it were. Time will tell next year when he has more of his own people around him.

Exactly that. I've been in a similar situation where I've accepted a role and, while working three months notice, been invited to play a part in the recruitment of a key manager. Even from 2 hours drive away it's really difficult, while still doing your current job, let alone from the other side of the world.

I'm sure DM was involved in the process to a degree, but it doesn't make them his people.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Dickens might have worked of course, the whole situation with him has been odd to put it mildly.

[sapajo]

Dickens might have worked of course, the whole situation with him has been odd to put it mildly.

Odd? Disastrous is more appropriate!

[RagingBull]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

[Rugbygramps]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

Agreed and I think Geography played some part in this

[westwinds31]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

I guess my question would be, would Cinti and Gonzalez have made as big an impact fitting into Tigers "game plan" ? We'll never know, Hassell-Collins was tearing it up for Irish and seemed like a decent signing (and still could be) , but the lack of an attack has hindered him, resulting in a loss of confidence etc - same with Bassett, at Wasps he was on fire, multiple touches of the ball, in space, good footwork and powerful. Rogerson is more of a work horse, doing the unseen work.

[INTHESINBIN]

I believe OHC was a done deal prior to the collapse of London Irish.

[westwinds31]

I believe OHC was a done deal prior to the collapse of London Irish.

Cool, but you get my drift.

[RagingBull]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

I guess my question would be, would Cinti and Gonzalez have made as big an impact fitting into Tigers "game plan" ? We'll never know, Hassell-Collins was tearing it up for Irish and seemed like a decent signing (and still could be) , but the lack of an attack has hindered him, resulting in a loss of confidence etc - same with Bassett, at Wasps he was on fire, multiple touches of the ball, in space, good footwork and powerful. Rogerson is more of a work horse, doing the unseen work.

Bassett was always solid for Wasps, same as Rogerson.
We have too many "Solid" players IMO

[Rugbygramps]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

I guess my question would be, would Cinti and Gonzalez have made as big an impact fitting into Tigers "game plan" ? We'll never know, Hassell-Collins was tearing it up for Irish and seemed like a decent signing (and still could be) , but the lack of an attack has hindered him, resulting in a loss of confidence etc - same with Bassett, at Wasps he was on fire, multiple touches of the ball, in space, good footwork and powerful. Rogerson is more of a work horse, doing the unseen work.

Bassett was always solid for Wasps, same as Rogerson.
We have too many "Solid" players IMO

It’s about that balance. Interesting Baxter comments about why he was selecting John over Hodge at the moment, and it boiled down where he’s still an exciting player he’s a bit more secure than Hodge

[GB72]

Watching Sarries play imagine if we had managed to secure Cinti and González as opposed to Bassett and Rogerson.

I honestly feel that the way other clubs capitalised on the 3 demised clubs players compared to us has been one of if not the biggest factor in the swing in a way.

Prob only 4 clubs didn't really capitalise much and only Sale are doing that well from those 4
Saints - Pearson, Munga, Langdon, Smith, Haffar all reagular 23 players
Sarries - Parton, Willis, Hoskins, Hartley, Cinti, Gonzalez
Bath - Lawrence, Alfie, Hill, Blackett,
Exeter - Feyi-Waboso, Fisilau, Frost,
Quins - Porter, CCS, Joesph
Bristol - BJVR, Oghre, Batley, Heward, Grondona,

I guess my question would be, would Cinti and Gonzalez have made as big an impact fitting into Tigers "game plan" ? We'll never know, Hassell-Collins was tearing it up for Irish and seemed like a decent signing (and still could be) , but the lack of an attack has hindered him, resulting in a loss of confidence etc - same with Bassett, at Wasps he was on fire, multiple touches of the ball, in space, good footwork and powerful. Rogerson is more of a work horse, doing the unseen work.

Bassett was always solid for Wasps, same as Rogerson.
We have too many "Solid" players IMO

I think that is a good point but one I see slightly differently. In an ideal world you have excellent first choice players with solid back up an developing third choices. Our success in developing and attracting international talent has meant that we are too often left with the solid players are our first choice option. I am not sure how any team gets along with 3 front row, 2 second rows, a number 8, scrum half, fly half, a centre and a full back on international duty. Suddenly means you are putting out a good squad rather than an excellent one. Yes, I know clashes are less now but with rest and injury, we are still likely to have to put out those solid players in all but a handful of league matches.

[TigerFeetSteve]

We need a centre, namely a 13, who possibly also covers wing.

Moroni is supposedly leaving Newcastle

Would people be opposed to a return?

[RagingBull]

I guess my question would be, would Cinti and Gonzalez have made as big an impact fitting into Tigers "game plan" ? We'll never know, Hassell-Collins was tearing it up for Irish and seemed like a decent signing (and still could be) , but the lack of an attack has hindered him, resulting in a loss of confidence etc - same with Bassett, at Wasps he was on fire, multiple touches of the ball, in space, good footwork and powerful. Rogerson is more of a work horse, doing the unseen work.

Bassett was always solid for Wasps, same as Rogerson.
We have too many "Solid" players IMO

I think that is a good point but one I see slightly differently. In an ideal world you have excellent first choice players with solid back up an developing third choices. Our success in developing and attracting international talent has meant that we are too often left with the solid players are our first choice option. I am not sure how any team gets along with 3 front row, 2 second rows, a number 8, scrum half, fly half, a centre and a full back on international duty. Suddenly means you are putting out a good squad rather than an excellent one. Yes, I know clashes are less now but with rest and injury, we are still likely to have to put out those solid players in all but a handful of league matches.

I feel that some positions you def need a solid option behind the first choice
Front row
Lock
Fly half
Outside centre
Full back

But the successful teams sacrifice depth and trust the youth more in favour of more quality in depth elsewhere

Back row is a massive one a lot of teams have more top end quality in compared to us.
Centres is another example

we have far too much money spent on the back 3 I feel. I also feel that Scrum half has gotten too heavy loaded with JVP, Youngs, Whiteley when you compare to say Bath, Saints, Sarries and even Quine

[SETiger]

I think that is a good point but one I see slightly differently. In an ideal world you have excellent first choice players with solid back up an developing third choices. Our success in developing and attracting international talent has meant that we are too often left with the solid players are our first choice option. I am not sure how any team gets along with 3 front row, 2 second rows, a number 8, scrum half, fly half, a centre and a full back on international duty. Suddenly means you are putting out a good squad rather than an excellent one. Yes, I know clashes are less now but with rest and injury, we are still likely to have to put out those solid players in all but a handful of league matches.

I can't get away from the Saracens comparison. They made similar World Cup and 6N contributions. It's possible our absences were in combinations of players that were particularly impactful. Did Sarries ever lose both Jamie George and Theo Dan at the same time? Did we just get unlucky? Did Sarries simply benefit from a very well established coaching team and playing philosophy?

With the injuries and rest periods, it felt like the 6N break was no break at all for us. Sarries just dropped their England players straight back in, I believe. We expected our non-England players to benefit from a 6-week break and come out of it with a well-drilled game plan.

I'd love to know if our squad-building for next season has been done on the assumption that we will or will not have another extended break during the 6N. Or maybe working around that assumption is just too difficult.

[westwinds31]

I guess my question would be, would Cinti and Gonzalez have made as big an impact fitting into Tigers "game plan" ? We'll never know, Hassell-Collins was tearing it up for Irish and seemed like a decent signing (and still could be) , but the lack of an attack has hindered him, resulting in a loss of confidence etc - same with Bassett, at Wasps he was on fire, multiple touches of the ball, in space, good footwork and powerful. Rogerson is more of a work horse, doing the unseen work.

Bassett was always solid for Wasps, same as Rogerson.
We have too many "Solid" players IMO

It’s about that balance. Interesting Baxter comments about why he was selecting John over Hodge at the moment, and it boiled down where he’s still an exciting player he’s a bit more secure than Hodge

Solid even !