Tigers v Sale (A) - Premiership - Friday 10th May 2024 - KO: 7:45pm

[cheltexile]

If you have a podcast you are the chosen one now, get used to it.

[westwinds31]

In amongst the disappointments, Steward was excellent tonight. Some great runs, beating multiple defenders and making covering tackles. Kata makes a huge difference. He’s not perfect but he creates panic in the opposition. The attack was and still is woeful. Passing to nobody, no shape and players getting in each other’s way. It can’t get any worse. The only way is up ! Let’s finish the season on a high, what else is there ?

[aslongaswebeatsaints]

There are three things certain in life: death, taxes and Tigers losing at Sale.

I stick to my statement throughout the season that Dan should be judged on next season, not this one. Most of the factors working against him this season are not of his making. However, next season……

I look forward to the key worries of S&C, accuracy in the final 20, and the loss of Jasper being resolved.

[Turnaroundspecialist]

Since the six nations we seem to have gone off the boil and find ways to lose from reasonable positions. It seems to me none of our star players have returned at full steam - either injured in some way or not adding impact. Is this bad luck or some underlying problem of motivation ?

[Knightonian]

Lot of fair weather fans showing themselves this last couple of weeks.

Not really, fans who are sick to the teeth of watching turgid rugby week after week with no improvement or cutting silly errors out. We never play the referee anymore either so are penalised for too regularly.

That's the very definition of a fair weather fan. It's not always been turgid. There has been good mixed in with the bad.

And has been mentioned there are mitigations.

I thought some of the boys who came off the bench tonight really stood up. It was good to see.

I think it’s all to easy to claim people are or aren’t fair weather fans - ive sat in the same seats for 35 years - but im not happy

I wasn’t happy with Matt O’Connor, we weren’t good enough with Geordie or the end Of Richard C….,

I’m sorry but there is a lot wrong with the team at the moment - look how all the other Premiership teams play they are significantly better, more confident and you feel they will score - you don’t get this with Leicester.

The key bit though is Leicester used to fight to the bitter end and were always in the battle.

Sadly it no longer feels the case and you feel we will just crumble

I’m sorry to say we aren’t just a few percentage points off

We are significantly less than the sum of our parts

The likelihood of winning at Sale was low, for some reason it always has been - so we should have blooded more young kids

[Ian Cant]

Just got back from Sale.
Lots to be proud of: Steward was immense: got to be captain next season!Tonight Shilcock far better than Pollard; Kata and Martin superb as were Carnduff and Heyes when they came on.
Manu and Ford: World Class.
Reffing as admitted by Sale fans around us was very poor but slightly more against Tigers.

[Knightonian]

And you are welcome to your IMHO - although I’m not sure why that entitles you to call me glib, but there you go.

They are not calling you glib, they are calling your generalisation glib, and they have a point. McKellar will be responsible for the results if they are ultimately not good enough, the buck stops with him as Head Coach.

But he is not and cannot be responsible for the players not being fit enough. That falls under the remit of the S&C coach, that is entirely his job. Using your logic Aled should get zero credit for his work, it was all down to Steve Borthwick.

The obsession of so many fans to pin every fault on McKellar is tiresome and tedious. You don’t have to like or rate the bloke, but stating every fault is his is nonsense.

I know you re well connected but I’m not sure why you feel you can run roughshod on my opinion. To say the HC is not responsible, a season in is interesting. You believe he should not be interested in players GPS data etc, wonder if Dawson et al have that approach?
My logic, which you seem to claim to understand better than I do, is Aled was excellent and I am pretty sure SB was close to everything he did - I’m sorry I am glib, tiresome, and tedious to you, perhaps because I don’t agree with you, but I’m not sure you are the oracle.

I actually think you should hold the coach accountable for the players not being fit enough -

That is exactly why your the head coach and not the forwards or back coach.

It is the responsibility of the head coach (who gets paid the bigger bucks) to identify the strategy, identify what’s working or failing and to alter the course to succeed.

If you see your people aren’t fit enough or not the right kind of fit, you have to own it and change things.

If you had the S&C person “given” to you then maybe the poor choice of recruitment looks elsewhere but it is still the Head Coaches responsibility to identify it, and get it improved how they want.

If the person can’t do it or doesn’t agree then you have to let them go.

The head coach, like any manager, should be getting in the weeds to irk out what’s going wrong and force the change that they want.

Dan McK has the summer to sort things out his way but in my opinion we need significant directional change before Xmas to be confident we’re moving in the right direction

[sam16111986]

Steward and Carnduff at least have shown some fight- Steward looks angry, as he has every right to.

I like angry Steward maybe we should fire him up a bit more pre game. He's been everywhere tonight.

Yep agreed. Great counter attacking break, solid under the high ball and covered a hell of a lot of ground tonight

Absolutely smoked Quirke to force a knock on and stop a try as well.

[sam16111986]

Not really, fans who are sick to the teeth of watching turgid rugby week after week with no improvement or cutting silly errors out. We never play the referee anymore either so are penalised for too regularly.

That's the very definition of a fair weather fan. It's not always been turgid. There has been good mixed in with the bad.

And has been mentioned there are mitigations.

I thought some of the boys who came off the bench tonight really stood up. It was good to see.

I think it’s all to easy to claim people are or aren’t fair weather fans - ive sat in the same seats for 35 years - but im not happy

I wasn’t happy with Matt O’Connor, we weren’t good enough with Geordie or the end Of Richard C….,

I’m sorry but there is a lot wrong with the team at the moment - look how all the other Premiership teams play they are significantly better, more confident and you feel they will score - you don’t get this with Leicester.

The key bit though is Leicester used to fight to the bitter end and were always in the battle.

Sadly it no longer feels the case and you feel we will just crumble

I’m sorry to say we aren’t just a few percentage points off

We are significantly less than the sum of our parts

The likelihood of winning at Sale was low, for some reason it always has been - so we should have blooded more young kids

Despite the lengthy moan we were very much in that game against a team that are in good form. We don't miss time the lineout on their 5m and there's a fair chance we scored from close in. Instead we go back the length of the field concede three points and Clare to the bin.

Yes the attack isn't working but we are still a dangerous team but we've got to be that bit more clinical 10 points conceded on the back of two poor lineouts, that I think has to be levelled at Clare. The first one he throws to no one and the second appears miss timed or under thrown.

[CrumblingTerrace]

This is starting to feel quite similar to the Murphy era, when I was half-expecting defeat before the game even started.

We're stacked with talent in this squad but they've been abject this season more times than is comfortable.

They all need our support now more than ever!

[TigerFeetSteve]

They are not calling you glib, they are calling your generalisation glib, and they have a point. McKellar will be responsible for the results if they are ultimately not good enough, the buck stops with him as Head Coach.

But he is not and cannot be responsible for the players not being fit enough. That falls under the remit of the S&C coach, that is entirely his job. Using your logic Aled should get zero credit for his work, it was all down to Steve Borthwick.

The obsession of so many fans to pin every fault on McKellar is tiresome and tedious. You don’t have to like or rate the bloke, but stating every fault is his is nonsense.

I know you re well connected but I’m not sure why you feel you can run roughshod on my opinion. To say the HC is not responsible, a season in is interesting. You believe he should not be interested in players GPS data etc, wonder if Dawson et al have that approach?
My logic, which you seem to claim to understand better than I do, is Aled was excellent and I am pretty sure SB was close to everything he did - I’m sorry I am glib, tiresome, and tedious to you, perhaps because I don’t agree with you, but I’m not sure you are the oracle.

I actually think you should hold the coach accountable for the players not being fit enough -

That is exactly why your the head coach and not the forwards or back coach.

It is the responsibility of the head coach (who gets paid the bigger bucks) to identify the strategy, identify what’s working or failing and to alter the course to succeed.

If you see your people aren’t fit enough or not the right kind of fit, you have to own it and change things.

If you had the S&C person “given” to you then maybe the poor choice of recruitment looks elsewhere but it is still the Head Coaches responsibility to identify it, and get it improved how they want.

If the person can’t do it or doesn’t agree then you have to let them go.

The head coach, like any manager, should be getting in the weeds to irk out what’s going wrong and force the change that they want.

Dan McK has the summer to sort things out his way but in my opinion we need significant directional change before Xmas to be confident we’re moving in the right direction

I agree with you in large part.

However I will say McKellar has identified the issue and that is why Richardson has been sacked and we are recruiting for his replacement.

At times this season our S&C hasn't been terrible, the problem is our training has led to peaks and troughs not consistency.

We have struggled quite notably with non match weeks loading.

Rest first team vs Bedford -> awful performance vs Bristol away

Rest first team vs Stade -> awful performance vs Bedford away

Rest first team at start of 6N -> scrape a win vs Championship Ealing

Rest first team end of 6N -> lose vs Gloucester

That to me shows we haven't got non match week loadings right.

[fentiger]

Pretty well as I expected last night to go!
Positives for me were: Steward back to, and possibly slightly surpassing, his best. Shillcock was really good, get the impression he, more than some, is a ‘confidence’ player? Heye’s had a decent game, Kata, as per usual bought out and out impact. Carnduff looks to the manor born

[Systonite]

That's the very definition of a fair weather fan. It's not always been turgid. There has been good mixed in with the bad.

And has been mentioned there are mitigations.

I thought some of the boys who came off the bench tonight really stood up. It was good to see.

I think it’s all to easy to claim people are or aren’t fair weather fans - ive sat in the same seats for 35 years - but im not happy

I wasn’t happy with Matt O’Connor, we weren’t good enough with Geordie or the end Of Richard C….,

I’m sorry but there is a lot wrong with the team at the moment - look how all the other Premiership teams play they are significantly better, more confident and you feel they will score - you don’t get this with Leicester.

The key bit though is Leicester used to fight to the bitter end and were always in the battle.

Sadly it no longer feels the case and you feel we will just crumble

I’m sorry to say we aren’t just a few percentage points off

We are significantly less than the sum of our parts

The likelihood of winning at Sale was low, for some reason it always has been - so we should have blooded more young kids

Despite the lengthy moan we were very much in that game against a team that are in good form. We don't miss time the lineout on their 5m and there's a fair chance we scored from close in. Instead we go back the length of the field concede three points and Clare to the bin.

Yes the attack isn't working but we are still a dangerous team but we've got to be that bit more clinical 10 points conceded on the back of two poor lineouts, that I think has to be levelled at Clare. The first one he throws to no one and the second appears miss timed or under thrown.

Quite fascinating to read your anti-Charlie Clare posts over several seasons. The jumpers/lifters clearly get a call wrong, but that has to be Clare's fault. The line out on their 5 metre line was knocked back by Carnduff to Cracknell, who passed to JVP peeling round from the front, a training ground move that went perfectly until JVP passed to Manu. That too is Clare's fault. You are priceless. Keep it up.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Pretty well as I expected last night to go!
Positives for me were: Steward back to, and possibly slightly surpassing, his best. Shillcock was really good, get the impression he, more than some, is a ‘confidence’ player? Heye’s had a decent game, Kata, as per usual bought out and out impact. Carnduff looks to the manor born

Kelly for me was very good too. Slowly getting back to his best and hopefully will smash it next season. His playmaking is definitely underrated. Everyone bangs on about Dingwall but Kelly as a much better ability.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Pretty well as I expected last night to go!
Positives for me were: Steward back to, and possibly slightly surpassing, his best. Shillcock was really good, get the impression he, more than some, is a ‘confidence’ player? Heye’s had a decent game, Kata, as per usual bought out and out impact. Carnduff looks to the manor born

Kelly for me was very good too. Slowly getting back to his best and hopefully will smash it next season. His playmaking is definitely underrated. Everyone bangs on about Dingwall but Kelly as a much better ability.

Agree, unfortunately both of our best centres are 12's

Personally whilst Kata has been great this season, he makes the most impact when off the bench against tired shoulders, so I'd generally go with that split of the two, but would rather not see Kelly at 13 too much, depends on our recruitment of another 13 to back up Perese though