LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - Crocodile McKeller: Men at Work

[Hot_Charlie]

Isn’t a 3 year contract long in rugby terms? I was under the impression that contracts were more likely to be 2 years long,is that right?

I'd say it's as long as is sensible. Too many unknowns for anything longer.

[Rugbygramps]

Agree with all previous comments about prop, on both sides and number 8 being a priority.
Tight head Dan will be 37 in May. The coaches obviously have faith in Heyes hence the new contract, and Hurd has always done well whenever I’ve seen him. It may be next season Heyes is the starter with Hurd on the bench and Cole providing back up.
Loose head IMO there isn’t much to choose between our 3 options at present. I feel we need a test level starter with Whitcombe as bench player, and retain either Cronin or Van Wyk as back up.

As others have mentioned we are never going to replace Wiese like for like, he was even premiership fantasy player of the week in a well beaten side. I would like to see Hatherall get a run of games, alongside Reffell and Liebenberg to gage his true worth, but that isn’t going to happen without Wiese being unavailable.
I would like us to pick up a powerful athlete with gain line breaking ability, who we concentrate at playing at 8, someone in the Wainwright, Ackerman type mould

[TigerFeetSteve]

Are we expecting any news this week on Brown?

Only if the assumption that most people seem to have that he is on a "short term" deal is correct.

The wording of his extension in March was "beyond the current season" which could mean he was signed up until the end of this season anyway.

I based my assumption on his contract ending in December on McKellar confirming it ends in December in an interview

https://twitter.com/BBCRLSport/status/1 ... WshFQ&s=19

[Tiglon]

Prop is a difficult one, I think the club have done all the right things with signings and development, but there is a potential danger on the horizon.

Cronin was a gamble worth taking, but he doesn't look like a 1st choice Premiership LH this season, and his handling is a problem. Too many errors. Probably too expensive to be 2nd choice and not quite good (or robust) enough to be 1st choice. He'll also be 34 a month into next season. He was never a long term solution, more a stop gap to fill the Genge shaped hole and I would guess that the club would be planning to replace him anyway.

Van Wyk is decent second choice for me, but nothing more. 33 by the start of next season.

Whitcombe looks solid, and is probably at a key point in his career - 23 years old, nearly 50 appearances for Tigers, can he cement his place?

It does feel like we could do with a top grade loosehead for next season (hopefully in the mid-late twenties who can be around for a while), and I would hope there's plenty of cap available if Cronin moves on.

At tighthead, Cole might have another season as first choice, but you'd have to imagine he won't be lasting as many minutes per game. That said, I wouldn't write him off just yet, he's still playing at a very high standard and looks as fit as ever.

Heyes is a bit of a conundrum for me, he's in his 6th season as a first team player and has racked up 133 appearances and a few England caps, but only 24 at the end of this season and yet to become first choice. Plenty of time still to develop, but you would imagine he's running out of time to prove he can be a reliable starter before the club feel they have to sign a replacement for Cole from elsewhere. He needs to show more consistency in the scrum.

Hurd looks solid, but will be 25 at the end of the season and I wonder if he will progress beyond squad player at Tigers, and whether he'll end up moving on to get more games.

Hoyt is potentially the long term future for us but that's probably at least a couple of years away and he's still relatively untested.

I'd be happy with these tightheads for next season, if Cole's body still looks in good shape, but I'd argue that will be Heyes' last chance to establish himself before we need to bring someone else in.

[ay2oh]

Wouldn’t surprise me if McKellar has already got players lined up for next season. Hope Hatherall is given a chance to make the eight position his own. Suspect Cronin or Van Wyk will be off and hopefully we have a replacement signed already. Maybe one of Rogerson or Cracknell will also go to give Illione more opportunities .

[TigerFeetSteve]

Has Hoyt been getting gametime this season? I know he was injured at the start of the season.

[Hot_Charlie]

Has Hoyt been getting gametime this season? I know he was injured at the start of the season.

Can't find any reference to him playing anywhere.

[sam16111986]

Wouldn’t surprise me if McKellar has already got players lined up for next season.

I'd expect a lot of the recruitment is either complete or well on the way to being completed. Might get some announcements early in the new year. For none Prem based players.

[johnthegriff]

I Joe Heyes is doing fine, he did struggle down at Ospreys last season when up against a very experienced prop who was allowed to scrummage illegally, Hurd eventually replaced him and had probably been warned and coached be those off the pitch before coming on and did ok. Joe will have learned a lesson and I would back him to at least hold his own against the same opponent next time.
Against Bedford we fielded a young loosehead I believe his name is Van der Flier or something like that, he looked a decent prospect.

[Rugbygramps]

IMO Heyes progression has plateaued after reaching that level a couple of years ago.
For me his biggest issue is consistency, yes there are games when he is test class, but there are others as in the Ospreys game, where his game drops off a cliff, I’m unsure is this is a confidence or performance issue.
The good thing is that he is still young enough for his development to recommence and he obviously has the confidence of the coaches or he wouldn’t have been offered a new contract.

England are going to be looking at a new batch of tight heads, with Coles age and Sinclair moving to France so if he can reach that minimum of 8 out of 10 every game, his test career isn’t over either

[TigerFeetSteve]

I Joe Heyes is doing fine, he did struggle down at Ospreys last season when up against a very experienced prop who was allowed to scrummage illegally, Hurd eventually replaced him and had probably been warned and coached be those off the pitch before coming on and did ok. Joe will have learned a lesson and I would back him to at least hold his own against the same opponent next time.
Against Bedford we fielded a young loosehead I believe his name is Van der Flier or something like that, he looked a decent prospect.

Van De Flier is often the bench Loosehead for Nottingham in the Championship which is a very good standard for a lad his age. Him & Miell both look prospects on the LH side for us.

[TigerFeetSteve]

In terms of contracts

I think an average contract length for a young/prime player is 3 years on a re-signing.

Older players are slightly rarer in getting 3 years, 2 years is probably the norm north of 30. It's also more common for new signings to come in on 2 rather than 3 year deals, just because new players have that bit more uncertainty about settling etc...

I think players from London Irish like Rogerson and Powell may be on one season deals (more down to the situation of LI folding) but outside of that I think 1 year deals outside of those are generally for those who may be very close to retirement, or say Watson for whom last season was a serious injury doubt coming into the season.

[Dr H Flashman MBE]

Wouldn’t surprise me if McKellar has already got players lined up for next season. Hope Hatherall is given a chance to make the eight position his own. Suspect Cronin or Van Wyk will be off and hopefully we have a replacement signed already. Maybe one of Rogerson or Cracknell will also go to give Illione more opportunities .

I would be gutted if Cracknell was let go. He is abrasive and would love to see a Hatherall, Cracknell and Tommy Turnover back 3.

[sam16111986]

IMO Heyes progression has plateaued after reaching that level a couple of years ago.
For me his biggest issue is consistency, yes there are games when he is test class, but there are others as in the Ospreys game, where his game drops off a cliff, I’m unsure is this is a confidence or performance issue.
The good thing is that he is still young enough for his development to recommence and he obviously has the confidence of the coaches or he wouldn’t have been offered a new contract.

England are going to be looking at a new batch of tight heads, with Coles age and Sinclair moving to France so if he can reach that minimum of 8 out of 10 every game, his test career isn’t over either

To be fair Nicky Smith is an excellent scrummaging loosehead. Short, powerful and technical. He's a real handful for bigger tightheads. It was a sharp learning experience for Heyes against a prop some five years older and 40 caps more experienced.

Incidentally if Nicky Smith only signed a one year extension last summer I'd happily see us bid for his services for next season. Smith and Cole in tandem would ruin a lot of opposition scrums.

I'd also add Heyes has been pretty consistent this season. Just not hitting any blazingly good form.

[Terracetiger4]

Intrigued no one has outside centre near the top of the wish list. To me that’s where we should be throwing a fair bit of cap next year. Porter isn’t good enough and poor Scotty is getting more and more injury plagued. Agree about a new loose head though.

Also does anyone know what exactly the score is with Dickens? I know he’s on a leave of absence but are we looking to recruit someone for next season or is he expected back? Because we desperately need someone to coach the backs.