Worrying attendances
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Re: Worrying attendances
There is a balance to be had between attendance & yield.
For Exeter for instance while their prices have always been high I saw a seating ticket for £80 in the normal side part for our game. I recall (please correct with real figures if these are massively off) their ticket prices were always high but normally in the £50 range for these "on the 22" type seats.
If they can attract people at those prices they will obviously be getting a much larger yield than even charging £40, which I would still view as an extremely high amount.
Tigers have a larger fan base covering more of society & a long established culture of low entry price tickets, particularly season tickets on the terrace are extremely cheap at £250 for 17 games.
Bristol for instance have slightly dipped on their attendance for the game v Bath but I doubt the yield changed much (& was almost certainly positive) as they slowly inflate their ticket prices closer to a sustainable level.
The other thing to remember is the pattern of RU attendances. People often post misleading "averages" comparing the first say 3 or 4 games of the season to the previous season's total average attendance. In rugby, other than for a small number of derby matches such as ours or Bristol/Bath/Gloucester triangle, the attendances rise during the season particularly after Xmas and during the 6N. A game v Worcester for instance would always get 17k in September but 20k+ in February or possibly 22k in April. A game v a "bigger" draw like Gloucester/Bath/Quins would sit about 2-3k higher on the first two figures & broadly the same in April.
For Exeter for instance while their prices have always been high I saw a seating ticket for £80 in the normal side part for our game. I recall (please correct with real figures if these are massively off) their ticket prices were always high but normally in the £50 range for these "on the 22" type seats.
If they can attract people at those prices they will obviously be getting a much larger yield than even charging £40, which I would still view as an extremely high amount.
Tigers have a larger fan base covering more of society & a long established culture of low entry price tickets, particularly season tickets on the terrace are extremely cheap at £250 for 17 games.
Bristol for instance have slightly dipped on their attendance for the game v Bath but I doubt the yield changed much (& was almost certainly positive) as they slowly inflate their ticket prices closer to a sustainable level.
The other thing to remember is the pattern of RU attendances. People often post misleading "averages" comparing the first say 3 or 4 games of the season to the previous season's total average attendance. In rugby, other than for a small number of derby matches such as ours or Bristol/Bath/Gloucester triangle, the attendances rise during the season particularly after Xmas and during the 6N. A game v Worcester for instance would always get 17k in September but 20k+ in February or possibly 22k in April. A game v a "bigger" draw like Gloucester/Bath/Quins would sit about 2-3k higher on the first two figures & broadly the same in April.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!
Re: Worrying attendances
What is the long term trend?
How are viewing figures looking?
What sort of attendance should be expected/targeted/required?
I know these are big questions/asks but these are what ultimately is important rather than looking at a particular few matches on a given day.
How are viewing figures looking?
What sort of attendance should be expected/targeted/required?
I know these are big questions/asks but these are what ultimately is important rather than looking at a particular few matches on a given day.
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Re: Worrying attendances
I was in London on Saturday and went to the Irish v Worcester game.
Tickets cost £20 full price and £15 for a young adult. So even in today's difficult times not too bad.
Beer was £6.00 and Guinness £6.75.
Attendance less than 7000, in a stadium which holds 17250.
The Brentford Stadium is a really nice ground and easy to get to on public transport.
Game was okay, Worcester are going to struggle both on and off the pitch.
I guess Irish are still trying to add to their fan base with locals rather than the diehards who have followed them from Sunbury to Oxford and back to London again.
Maybe it was because of the circumstances but it all seemed quite low key.
Plenty of kids there which was good to see.
Tickets cost £20 full price and £15 for a young adult. So even in today's difficult times not too bad.
Beer was £6.00 and Guinness £6.75.
Attendance less than 7000, in a stadium which holds 17250.
The Brentford Stadium is a really nice ground and easy to get to on public transport.
Game was okay, Worcester are going to struggle both on and off the pitch.
I guess Irish are still trying to add to their fan base with locals rather than the diehards who have followed them from Sunbury to Oxford and back to London again.
Maybe it was because of the circumstances but it all seemed quite low key.
Plenty of kids there which was good to see.
Re: Worrying attendances
It has been a while since I have done an away trip and so I am a bit out of date on the workings.
Can I assume that our fans get stung for higher ticket costs as we are seen as an 'A' fixture whereas other clubs will pay a reduced amount to encourage fans to attend when the opposition is not such a draw.
Can I assume that our fans get stung for higher ticket costs as we are seen as an 'A' fixture whereas other clubs will pay a reduced amount to encourage fans to attend when the opposition is not such a draw.
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Re: Worrying attendances
Dunno, but i expect so!
I am aiming to go to see the Tigers game down there in March, so I will find out then.
I am aiming to go to see the Tigers game down there in March, so I will find out then.
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Re: Worrying attendances
I note that the RFU have sut the ladies team monies by 50%.
Will there be a similar substantial (percent wise) cut for the men?
Will there be a similar substantial (percent wise) cut for the men?
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Re: Worrying attendances
There is a bit of rose tinted specs here regarding the 'good old days' . I used to watch Orrell pre professionalism. They got crowds in the hundreds, and this was when they were pushing for the title. The standard was not good, these were amateurs playing at am amateur level. This was in the era of John Carleton and Charles Cusani. I can't speak for Leicester at the time, but the only decent crowds I ever saw were for the Roses game.
There was no marketing, and pre the world cup, the Carling one, rugby had no real presence on TV, it was only the people who played the game who had any interest.
Rugby is now at a crossroads. Pre Covid it was doing ok, some big club attendances, especially at Twickenham, and more people were at least aware of the game.
Rugby is now at a crossroads. It badly needs to attract fans, it needs a TV presence beyond the 6 nations. Club results are not even featured on the news. It needs a proper marketing, it needs a good highlights program at a sensible time, and it really really needs to sort out the mess that is international/club games. Otherwise I fear it will go the way of county cricket. I can see a future of centrally contracted players playing ever more irrelevant international games, with clubs becoming semi pro. I really hope not though
There was no marketing, and pre the world cup, the Carling one, rugby had no real presence on TV, it was only the people who played the game who had any interest.
Rugby is now at a crossroads. Pre Covid it was doing ok, some big club attendances, especially at Twickenham, and more people were at least aware of the game.
Rugby is now at a crossroads. It badly needs to attract fans, it needs a TV presence beyond the 6 nations. Club results are not even featured on the news. It needs a proper marketing, it needs a good highlights program at a sensible time, and it really really needs to sort out the mess that is international/club games. Otherwise I fear it will go the way of county cricket. I can see a future of centrally contracted players playing ever more irrelevant international games, with clubs becoming semi pro. I really hope not though
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Re: Worrying attendances
Bit narrow with the debate there. Money!!!!
Players in clubs overpaid against the ability of their audience. RFU cuts players appearance monies, will the PRL be tempted to cut the cap on clubs wage bills?
Is this the thin end of a salvation wedge?
The common theme in all the responses to this particular theme so far is "can the game of rugby afford it?" Can the support afford it?
Players in clubs overpaid against the ability of their audience. RFU cuts players appearance monies, will the PRL be tempted to cut the cap on clubs wage bills?
Is this the thin end of a salvation wedge?
The common theme in all the responses to this particular theme so far is "can the game of rugby afford it?" Can the support afford it?
Re: Worrying attendances
Sadly I think that we are already about 80% there to being like county cricket and if the RFU had the money I think that line would have already been crossed. How laughable is it that the conversation for the opening week of the season is what B team the clubs can put out. No self respecting professional sport starts the season with all of the big names missing then takes them away again soon after them come back. A sport cannot be run like that. But it suits the RFU to have the focus on England as opposed the clubs because when then cannot afford the wages, the RFU can sweep up players with nice, affordable, central contracts and the clubs will need to go to the RFU cap in hand for their services. As long as Twickenham is full every week and there are clubs keeping their players in decent shape until they are taken away again then the RFU are happy. Meanwhile, the club reward for developing England players, higher wages for less game time and every club with a rich benefactor trying to sign them on.northerntiger wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:58 pm There is a bit of rose tinted specs here regarding the 'good old days' . I used to watch Orrell pre professionalism. They got crowds in the hundreds, and this was when they were pushing for the title. The standard was not good, these were amateurs playing at am amateur level. This was in the era of John Carleton and Charles Cusani. I can't speak for Leicester at the time, but the only decent crowds I ever saw were for the Roses game.
There was no marketing, and pre the world cup, the Carling one, rugby had no real presence on TV, it was only the people who played the game who had any interest.
Rugby is now at a crossroads. Pre Covid it was doing ok, some big club attendances, especially at Twickenham, and more people were at least aware of the game.
Rugby is now at a crossroads. It badly needs to attract fans, it needs a TV presence beyond the 6 nations. Club results are not even featured on the news. It needs a proper marketing, it needs a good highlights program at a sensible time, and it really really needs to sort out the mess that is international/club games. Otherwise I fear it will go the way of county cricket. I can see a future of centrally contracted players playing ever more irrelevant international games, with clubs becoming semi pro. I really hope not though
Re: Worrying attendances
All the stuff you have ever cared about is money. They don’t even pretend to care about the supporters or player welfare. Eddie flogs the England players and then asks the clubs to not overplay them.
I personally don’t give a stuff about international rugby now as there are too many meaningless games which are just money making exercises to keep the R.F.U coffers topped up.
The best thing that could happen is that the clubs break away and negotiate a bumper tv deal with fixtures where all of the top players are available for most games. I know that this will never happen but I can always dream.
I personally don’t give a stuff about international rugby now as there are too many meaningless games which are just money making exercises to keep the R.F.U coffers topped up.
The best thing that could happen is that the clubs break away and negotiate a bumper tv deal with fixtures where all of the top players are available for most games. I know that this will never happen but I can always dream.
A2O
Re: Worrying attendances
Sadly when those England games are worth 20 grand a shot to each player, you are not going to get much in the way of support there to break away from the national set up. I suspect quite a number of players earn more from their England payments than their club salary. Add to that the image rights money that comes from pulling on an England jersey and I suspect that the clubs would not have player support in a club v country dispute.ay2oh wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:35 pm All the stuff you have ever cared about is money. They don’t even pretend to care about the supporters or player welfare. Eddie flogs the England players and then asks the clubs to not overplay them.
I personally don’t give a stuff about international rugby now as there are too many meaningless games which are just money making exercises to keep the R.F.U coffers topped up.
The best thing that could happen is that the clubs break away and negotiate a bumper tv deal with fixtures where all of the top players are available for most games. I know that this will never happen but I can always dream.
Re: Worrying attendances
I sometimes reflect with similar thoughts to yours, and then I realise it is me, and lots of other supporters, who are the problem. Whilst ever we carry on paying for BT Sport and Sky packages, with the concomitant advertising benefits, mega money will be paid for knocking a little white ball into a hole in the ground. We feed the beast......or at least provide B&B.Nofrontteeth wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:10 am In agreement with Ads thoughts.
Yes, both Tigers and Glos produced last minute thrills but proceeded with kick tennis and "the Ref" taking centre stage; all on the telly with national access and judgement.
On the Wendy Ball monopoly and their self styled 'nations game' I personally reflect:-
As a youngster I was a regular at Filbert St and could relate to the lives of those playing in front of me. Then player contract controls allowed uncontrolled wages etc. I did my 40hrs/week to afford a treat
My attendance stopped on principle as much as finance.
Rugby finances, cap or not are getting totally out of step with the supporters own pressures. With Football spending £mega or Golfers winning millions for hitting a little ball down a hole the whole world of sport as a business is grossly inflationary.
Will that bubble burst?
As Good As It Gets
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Re: Worrying attendances
A good point scuttle. We do still want TV cover with and by doing so we feed the advertising monster. Also suggested by others should we "go on strike?" That's SKY or BT not the club!
I've have been guilty like many of watching a game live then watching a recording within 24hours.
I agree with the thoughts of many here and let's not forget not all club supporters are England supporters.
Elizabeth Queen of Scots RIP
I've have been guilty like many of watching a game live then watching a recording within 24hours.
I agree with the thoughts of many here and let's not forget not all club supporters are England supporters.
Elizabeth Queen of Scots RIP
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Re: Worrying attendances
Back in the real world, if the players for an England appearance only took say £10k.... The other 10k could be filed out to the championship clubs?
Re: Worrying attendances
I think you will see pigs flying over our skies before the players agree to that.