George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
I was/am a huge George Ford fan but Burns was incredible during the Six Nations and I’m not sure we would have beaten Sarries if Freddie hadn’t replaced George. On the other hand, we wouldn’t have beaten Saints in the semi without George.
Freddie will most likely, fitness permitting, play more than Pollard due to international commitments!
Pollard was in great form in the World Cup Final and in some ways is like Farrell: both can play a clever running game and obviously an astute kicking game!
Dan Kelly being fit will be essential especially since Moroni had a great end to his Tigers’ career.
Freddie will most likely, fitness permitting, play more than Pollard due to international commitments!
Pollard was in great form in the World Cup Final and in some ways is like Farrell: both can play a clever running game and obviously an astute kicking game!
Dan Kelly being fit will be essential especially since Moroni had a great end to his Tigers’ career.
Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
Firstly, I love George Ford. A great tactician on the field whose control of territory was a cut above any other during the regular league season and semifinal. If I was to pick a fly half to navigate the season it would be him over Pollard.
However, perhaps unfairly, my impression is he is 1 rung below Farrell, biggar, sexton, Pollard in being a leader (test match animal / big game player) who can drag a team through the biggest title matches.
Unfortunately the prem final was his chance to correct this view and we know how that ended. Maybe I'm rewriting history in my mind a couple of months later but I felt some relief when Burns came on in the final.
I think the signing of gopperth is inspired in replacing fords tactical discipline during the regular season games. I have great expectations for Pollard to come into his own in finals rugby. I would rather ford stayed out of sentiment, but think we have ended up with the very best replacement solution in Pollard and Gopperth.
However, perhaps unfairly, my impression is he is 1 rung below Farrell, biggar, sexton, Pollard in being a leader (test match animal / big game player) who can drag a team through the biggest title matches.
Unfortunately the prem final was his chance to correct this view and we know how that ended. Maybe I'm rewriting history in my mind a couple of months later but I felt some relief when Burns came on in the final.
I think the signing of gopperth is inspired in replacing fords tactical discipline during the regular season games. I have great expectations for Pollard to come into his own in finals rugby. I would rather ford stayed out of sentiment, but think we have ended up with the very best replacement solution in Pollard and Gopperth.
Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
We could never replace genge like for like, but on field we may find cronin a better scrummager. Ball carrying, the whole pack needs to step up and I suspect taufete was signed for this impact. Longer term, I wonder whether someone like Gallo is being looked at with van wyk likely in last year of contract, noting a lot is expected of whitcombe.
I'm hoping the young guys step up into that leadership void around the club as well as on the field.
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
Gallo looks the absolute business.. would be nice if his international team mate and captain could persuade him where to play club rugby
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
For me Ford had too many off games when it mattered for us and for England, brilliant when it all goes to plan but anonymous when the opposition get in his face, also he was our FH during our worst period as well which rather colours my memory.
In pollard we have a proven test match winner, so just comparing them as international FH's there is no contest who has the better CV!
In pollard we have a proven test match winner, so just comparing them as international FH's there is no contest who has the better CV!
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
Rugby Union is very much a team game played by 15-23 players with a coaching team setting the style of play, fitness levels etc. As such, IMHO, equating an individual's capabilities to the performance of the team is in iniquitous. To illustrate, IIRC, wasnt George the top points scorer in the Premiership in one of the seasons in our worst period?BengalTiger wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:35 am For me Ford had too many off games when it mattered for us and for England, brilliant when it all goes to plan but anonymous when the opposition get in his face, also he was our FH during our worst period as well which rather colours my memory.
In pollard we have a proven test match winner, so just comparing them as international FH's there is no contest who has the better CV!
Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
Ford helped to save us us from relegation.
More good games than bad IMO. Sale have got a cracking player, if he comes back from his injury the same.
Pollard though is equally as good just different.
More good games than bad IMO. Sale have got a cracking player, if he comes back from his injury the same.
Pollard though is equally as good just different.
Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
Couldnt disagree more. When it did go to plan it was often Ford who instigated the plan in the first place. Some of his long range passing and miss passes were top drawer. Regarding anonymous when the opposition got in his face this is no different from most other 10’s. Leaves a bit of a bad taste when players get criticised after they leave us.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:35 am For me Ford had too many off games when it mattered for us and for England, brilliant when it all goes to plan but anonymous when the opposition get in his face, also he was our FH during our worst period as well which rather colours my memory.
In pollard we have a proven test match winner, so just comparing them as international FH's there is no contest who has the better CV!
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
Agreed, Ford was fantastic for us. Very few flyhalfs look good when on the back foot but Ford managed to be the Prem's top point scorer when he finished above Falcons to avoid relegation. Not someone who couldn't turn it on when things were tough.ay2oh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:32 pmCouldnt disagree more. When it did go to plan it was often Ford who instigated the plan in the first place. Some of his long range passing and miss passes were top drawer. Regarding anonymous when the opposition got in his face this is no different from most other 10’s. Leaves a bit of a bad taste when players get criticised after they leave us.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:35 am For me Ford had too many off games when it mattered for us and for England, brilliant when it all goes to plan but anonymous when the opposition get in his face, also he was our FH during our worst period as well which rather colours my memory.
In pollard we have a proven test match winner, so just comparing them as international FH's there is no contest who has the better CV!
As for not showing up in big games, well BT must have a short memory because Ford steered us past Saints in that semi final when our back was against the wall. High pressure in a big game and the cream definitely rose to the top.
Pollard has big shoes to fill but he's a high calibre player. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
No argument that Ford was at times top drawer, but I stand by my comment that he had a lot of mediocre games in a Tigers shirt over the previous seasons, last season he was outstanding (perhaps being dropped by England motivated him), at international level Pollard has a far better CV, that is not even an argument!sam16111986 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:20 pmAgreed, Ford was fantastic for us. Very few flyhalfs look good when on the back foot but Ford managed to be the Prem's top point scorer when he finished above Falcons to avoid relegation. Not someone who couldn't turn it on when things were tough.ay2oh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:32 pmCouldnt disagree more. When it did go to plan it was often Ford who instigated the plan in the first place. Some of his long range passing and miss passes were top drawer. Regarding anonymous when the opposition got in his face this is no different from most other 10’s. Leaves a bit of a bad taste when players get criticised after they leave us.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:35 am For me Ford had too many off games when it mattered for us and for England, brilliant when it all goes to plan but anonymous when the opposition get in his face, also he was our FH during our worst period as well which rather colours my memory.
In pollard we have a proven test match winner, so just comparing them as international FH's there is no contest who has the better CV!
As for not showing up in big games, well BT must have a short memory because Ford steered us past Saints in that semi final when our back was against the wall. High pressure in a big game and the cream definitely rose to the top.
Pollard has big shoes to fill but he's a high calibre player. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.
As for being top points scorer, is that a case of lies, damn lies and statistics? perhaps he scored most points because penalties were our only option as our forward were power puff and our backs were playing so poorly so no one could score tries?
Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
I suspect Ford had been carring one of more injuries for some time.
Particularly the achilles one which finally let go in the final. I may be wrong but this may have been affecting his running game for some time. The darts through the gaps that he once had seemed to largely dissappear from his game which make him much more of a distributor from hand or with the boot. Perhaps we should not judge the last couple of seasons harshly with this in mind.
We were lucky to have Burns back as a quality replacement this season.
Particularly the achilles one which finally let go in the final. I may be wrong but this may have been affecting his running game for some time. The darts through the gaps that he once had seemed to largely dissappear from his game which make him much more of a distributor from hand or with the boot. Perhaps we should not judge the last couple of seasons harshly with this in mind.
We were lucky to have Burns back as a quality replacement this season.
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
I did suspect when he suffered the final injury that there was a pre existing Achilles condition.mol2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:20 pm I suspect Ford had been carring one of more injuries for some time.
Particularly the achilles one which finally let go in the final. I may be wrong but this may have been affecting his running game for some time. The darts through the gaps that he once had seemed to largely dissappear from his game which make him much more of a distributor from hand or with the boot. Perhaps we should not judge the last couple of seasons harshly with this in mind.
We were lucky to have Burns back as a quality replacement this season.
What cannot be argued is his 100% commitment to the side.
Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
let's just agree to disagree thenBengalTiger wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pmNo argument that Ford was at times top drawer, but I stand by my comment that he had a lot of mediocre games in a Tigers shirt over the previous seasons, last season he was outstanding (perhaps being dropped by England motivated him), at international level Pollard has a far better CV, that is not even an argument!sam16111986 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:20 pmAgreed, Ford was fantastic for us. Very few flyhalfs look good when on the back foot but Ford managed to be the Prem's top point scorer when he finished above Falcons to avoid relegation. Not someone who couldn't turn it on when things were tough.ay2oh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:32 pm Couldnt disagree more. When it did go to plan it was often Ford who instigated the plan in the first place. Some of his long range passing and miss passes were top drawer. Regarding anonymous when the opposition got in his face this is no different from most other 10’s. Leaves a bit of a bad taste when players get criticised after they leave us.
As for not showing up in big games, well BT must have a short memory because Ford steered us past Saints in that semi final when our back was against the wall. High pressure in a big game and the cream definitely rose to the top.
Pollard has big shoes to fill but he's a high calibre player. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.
As for being top points scorer, is that a case of lies, damn lies and statistics? perhaps he scored most points because penalties were our only option as our forward were power puff and our backs were playing so poorly so no one could score tries?
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
He was carrying it for the tail end of the season most definitely. At the start of the season when he was fully fit he was incredible. That away performance Vs Saints as we hammered them at the Gardens was pure magic.Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:25 pmI did suspect when he suffered the final injury that there was a pre existing Achilles condition.mol2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:20 pm I suspect Ford had been carring one of more injuries for some time.
Particularly the achilles one which finally let go in the final. I may be wrong but this may have been affecting his running game for some time. The darts through the gaps that he once had seemed to largely dissappear from his game which make him much more of a distributor from hand or with the boot. Perhaps we should not judge the last couple of seasons harshly with this in mind.
We were lucky to have Burns back as a quality replacement this season.
What cannot be argued is his 100% commitment to the side.
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Re: George Ford and Handrè Pollard discussions
That drop goal was as pure a strike as you’ll see, but it was still 3 points just like Freddie’s shin at Twickers.sam16111986 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:34 pmHe was carrying it for the tail end of the season most definitely. At the start of the season when he was fully fit he was incredible. That away performance Vs Saints as we hammered them at the Gardens was pure magic.Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:25 pmI did suspect when he suffered the final injury that there was a pre existing Achilles condition.mol2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:20 pm I suspect Ford had been carring one of more injuries for some time.
Particularly the achilles one which finally let go in the final. I may be wrong but this may have been affecting his running game for some time. The darts through the gaps that he once had seemed to largely dissappear from his game which make him much more of a distributor from hand or with the boot. Perhaps we should not judge the last couple of seasons harshly with this in mind.
We were lucky to have Burns back as a quality replacement this season.
What cannot be argued is his 100% commitment to the side.