A Proper Clear Out
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A Proper Clear Out
Are we now seeing the clear out that should have happened after Cockers left? This should have happened between seasons after Cockers left.
What we saw were indecisive appointments like O'Connor and then Murphy as head coach. No problem with him taking over on a temporary basis but that should never have been made permanent unless the side was radically turned round which certainly was not the case.
We dodged a bullet when Newcastle went down and were saved this season by the fall out of the Sarries debacle.
So we appointed an experienced international coach (unproven as a head coach) to be head coach and promoted Murphy to DOR, a less experienced coach, to be his immediate superior. Why did we let this happen? It was almost certainly going to be doomed to failure.
The restart saw no real changes to playing style. This had to come. Our woes were not just down to finding ourselves competing with moneybags sides. We've been losing to pretty well everyone.
Let Borthwick build his own team and succeed or fail himself, not be hamstrung by inherited baggage. Such a shame the timing is so bad.
What we saw were indecisive appointments like O'Connor and then Murphy as head coach. No problem with him taking over on a temporary basis but that should never have been made permanent unless the side was radically turned round which certainly was not the case.
We dodged a bullet when Newcastle went down and were saved this season by the fall out of the Sarries debacle.
So we appointed an experienced international coach (unproven as a head coach) to be head coach and promoted Murphy to DOR, a less experienced coach, to be his immediate superior. Why did we let this happen? It was almost certainly going to be doomed to failure.
The restart saw no real changes to playing style. This had to come. Our woes were not just down to finding ourselves competing with moneybags sides. We've been losing to pretty well everyone.
Let Borthwick build his own team and succeed or fail himself, not be hamstrung by inherited baggage. Such a shame the timing is so bad.
Re: A Proper Clear Out
Tend to agree with most of thismol2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:13 pm Are we now seeing the clear out that should have happened after Cockers left? This should have happened between seasons after Cockers left.
What we saw were indecisive appointments like O'Connor and then Murphy as head coach. No problem with him taking over on a temporary basis but that should never have been made permanent unless the side was radically turned round which certainly was not the case.
We dodged a bullet when Newcastle went down and were saved this season by the fall out of the Sarries debacle.
So we appointed an experienced international coach (unproven as a head coach) to be head coach and promoted Murphy to DOR, a less experienced coach, to be his immediate superior. Why did we let this happen? It was almost certainly going to be doomed to failure.
The restart saw no real changes to playing style. This had to come. Our woes were not just down to finding ourselves competing with moneybags sides. We've been losing to pretty well everyone.
Let Borthwick build his own team and succeed or fail himself, not be hamstrung by inherited baggage. Such a shame the timing is so bad.
A2O
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
Personally IMO we need one more to roll before calling it a proper clear out.
Re: A Proper Clear Out
Who is that " one more" person ?RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:35 pm Personally IMO we need one more to roll before calling it a proper clear out.
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
For me the boss, the head man, the top dog, the big cheese, the head honcho, number one
Re: A Proper Clear Out
Mike Ford!sapajo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:50 pmWho is that " one more" person ?RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:35 pm Personally IMO we need one more to roll before calling it a proper clear out.
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
Oh Ben Kay?? So far it is Boris Stankovich, Rod Rob T Taylor, Rory Underwood, and Lord Digby (thank goodness) etc.. Is this copying with Girl Power?????RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:56 pm For me the boss, the head man, the top dog, the big cheese, the head honcho, number one
I hope Bondi remains as we need someone to close the doors!
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But to that one person you may be the world!
Re: A Proper Clear Out
Yes, it's a bit too late, but we are where we are. As sad as it is to see GM leave Leicester Tigers, we do seem to finally have an understanding of what's needed to get back to the top.
Re: A Proper Clear Out
It’s a shame Geordan had to go but in many ways his fate was sealed when he took on the head coach role on a permanent basis. Too big an ask to be head coach at that point.
Whilst notionally DOR he was always going to be in an impossible situation. Directing a head coach with significantly more experience was never going to work for either him or Borthwick. Knew trouble was coming when he said he would still have the final say on selection.
The other coaches had to decide who they were going to back.
Eventually the board had to do the same. A mess of their own making.
Whilst notionally DOR he was always going to be in an impossible situation. Directing a head coach with significantly more experience was never going to work for either him or Borthwick. Knew trouble was coming when he said he would still have the final say on selection.
The other coaches had to decide who they were going to back.
Eventually the board had to do the same. A mess of their own making.
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
Sureiy a clear out also implies some form of replacement is needed. I don't think we can know if this is what was needed until we see who the replacements are.
I saw Marika Vunibaka play
Re: A Proper Clear Out
The club have stated that the post vacated by Murphy (Director of Rugby) will not be refilled.
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
In which case we'd still need a scrum coach and probably an experienced backs coach too. To build a new-look coaching team and them dismantle it a few months later....bizarre.
I saw Marika Vunibaka play
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
This is all being driven by the current situation and ultimately cash. When a business needs to survive then just as you take the layers off an onion you look where next outgoings can be reduced. Unfortunately a DOR is a strategic role that in these abnormal times is not critical. The business costs (staff) reductions will continue. At the end of the day providing 23 fit players are put out on a match day then everything else is at risk of being dropped to alow club survival.
Income is needed soon otherwise we may be looking for the Phoenix to rise!!
Income is needed soon otherwise we may be looking for the Phoenix to rise!!
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
For me, we need three more rolls of the dice. On the coaching side Mike Ford; and on the management side Ben Kay 'rugby committee', and Peter Tom, who has overseen the whole sorry mess and repeated the same bad decisions over the last decade.RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:56 pm For me the boss, the head man, the top dog, the big cheese, the head honcho, number one
I am not ageist, but 80 is simply too old to be Chairman of an aspirational, forward thinking first class rugby club.
ST in new Clubhouse stand ... sadly, my back's no longer up to standing :-(
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Re: A Proper Clear Out
Coaching honestly should be up to Borthwick. If he wants Ford then I don't mind.
Agree with Tom and Kay.
TBH though for Tom to go you need Scott to go and for that you need a sale.
Agree with Tom and Kay.
TBH though for Tom to go you need Scott to go and for that you need a sale.