3G & 4G Pitches - Risk Of Injury?

[Roly]

This article appeared on the BBC News website today.

It suggests that some quite serious 'burns' were inflicted by players playing on a 3G pitch in Wales.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-39423293

I think this is the first time I've been aware of such serious friction injuries on an 'artificial' pitch. The article implies that the playing surface hadn't been 'managed' correctly (in Wales, who'd have thunk it....).

I know some disagree that artificial pitches are the future, but if such injuries become prevalent, then they might have a point. Is anyone aware of other artificial pitches regularly inflicting such injuries - baring in mind that friction burns on grass aren't exactly uncommon....

[wormus]

This article appeared on the BBC News website today.

It suggests that some quite serious 'burns' were inflicted by players playing on a 3G pitch in Wales.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-39423293

I think this is the first time I've been aware of such serious friction injuries on an 'artificial' pitch. The article implies that the playing surface hadn't been 'managed' correctly (in Wales, who'd have thunk it....).

I know some disagree that artificial pitches are the future, but if such injuries become prevalent, then they might have a point. Is anyone aware of other artificial pitches regularly inflicting such injuries - baring in mind that friction burns on grass aren't exactly uncommon....

Yes who would have thought that Wales the land of "The green,green grass of home!" would have not encouraged plastic pitches, this is a serious issue and could well reside in the damages courts on duty of care grounds. I believe that Tigers hybrid pitch with real grass is the answer and I am surprised that more clubs have not followed our lead as the first UK rugby club with this surface.
Mind you I will always remember complaints of "body burns" by girlfriends from Cyril Lord Encalon? carpets but that too brings it down to earth!!

[Iain]

Just another reason why I don't think they should be used to play rugby on.

[Roly]

Just another reason why I don't think they should be used to play rugby on.

Fully synthetic pitches perhaps, but hybrid pitches are a good compromise with regards to poor weather availability and general accessibility.

[Iain]

Oh sorry I got the wrong end of the stick - fully synthetic like Saracens I don't think should be used.

Was this on a hybrid like Twickenham then? In which case that's a bit more alarming as as far as I was aware that shouldn't have been able to happen.

[Ads677]

Oh sorry I got the wrong end of the stick - fully synthetic like Saracens I don't think should be used.

Was this on a hybrid like Twickenham then? In which case that's a bit more alarming as as far as I was aware that shouldn't have been able to happen.

No, I don't think so. Reading the article suggests that the pitch is a 3G completely synthetic pitch.

As a matter of interest is 4G superior to 3G, and if so why?

I'm not sure what surface is used by Sarries, but I don't recall seeing friction burns on any players - it does appear to be watered though, so maybe that is a requirement.

Still don't like synthetic pitches for our game though.

[jgriffin]

I can remember whole soggy winters where the pitches from Llanelli to Cardiff were unplayable Jan-March as they were grass-free mudbaths, so the temptation would be to use artificial, especially where there is usage from a couple of teams.

[DeadlyDunc]

Oh sorry I got the wrong end of the stick - fully synthetic like Saracens I don't think should be used.

Was this on a hybrid like Twickenham then? In which case that's a bit more alarming as as far as I was aware that shouldn't have been able to happen.

No, I don't think so. Reading the article suggests that the pitch is a 3G completely synthetic pitch.

As a matter of interest is 4G superior to 3G, and if so why?

I'm not sure what surface is used by Sarries, but I don't recall seeing friction burns on any players - it does appear to be watered though, so maybe that is a requirement.

Still don't like synthetic pitches for our game though.

4G doesn't actually exist - its a name taken on by Rugby (RFU) to differentiate their pitches from 3G Football pitches but its the same surfacing technology used in both sports.

The difference lies beneath the surface with World Rugby requiring a shock absorbent layer (shockpad) that offers a minimum 1.3m critical fall height (measure of shock absorbency) for a compliant rugby pitch at any level of the game. This is designed to minimise the risk of head/turf concussions which is an issue in American Football who traditionally don't require any shockpad layer at all.

The 3G rugby surface itself is pretty much the same as a football 3G using the same yarn technology but often there is a stronger backing to the turf to withstand the strains and stresses of areas of the game such as scrummaging.

The burn issue in South Wales is likely to be a combination of factors, perhaps a lack of maintenance (making sure the rubber crumb is evenly spread so skin to fibre contact is minimised) or potentially a more serious issue with the synthetic grass manufacture.

Hope that helps - basically 4G doesn't exist - its just a marketing term used by rugby to differentiate a rugby pitch from a football pitch.

[mightymouse]

Twickenham and Murrayfield both have Desso hybrid pitches. It has long been an opinion with some on this forum that the fully plastic pitches have injured some of our players at places like Saracens and Newcastle. However it seems that the same opinion has felt the Desso has been fine.

In successive weeks however 2 Scottish centres have have severe knee injuries, one at Twickenham and one at Murrayfield. Both were caused by seemingly innocuous side step movements and resulting in them collapsing in a heap of agony without another player close. Is this just a coincidence or is it do do with the grip on the studs being too solid to take a sideways movement. I can never recall such injures occurring in such circumstances on an old fashioned mud and grass pitch.

Anyone got any thoughts on the matter?

[DeadlyDunc]

I'd argue injuries occur on any pitch in any condition and of any type.

There has been knee injuries in sport since time immemorial the likes of which used to end careers but that are now rehabilitated within 12 months - just look at Toomua's anticipated return date (incidentally on a hybrid pitch).

I would suggest the frequency & volume of matches, the profile of the top level games, the visibility on TV/Internet of games and the well documented rigors of the modern game contribute to a perception that they are more common or that they are linked to any particular playing surface/system.

Incidentally, as with all types of pitches there are good, bad and indifferent pitch qualities depending on frequency of use, maintenance, ongoing investment & upkeep etc which make it almost impossible to say type 1 pitch causes injury X more frequently than type 2 pitch.

[DeadlyDunc]

I'd argue injuries occur on any pitch in any condition and of any type.

There has been knee injuries in sport since time immemorial the likes of which used to end careers but that are now rehabilitated within 12 months - just look at Toomua's anticipated return date (incidentally on a hybrid pitch).

I would suggest the frequency & volume of matches, the profile of the top level games, the visibility on TV/Internet of games and the well documented rigors of the modern game contribute to a perception that they are more common or that they are linked to any particular playing surface/system.

Incidentally, as with all types of pitches there are good, bad and indifferent pitch qualities depending on frequency of use, maintenance, ongoing investment & upkeep etc which make it almost impossible to say type 1 pitch causes injury X more frequently than type 2 pitch.

Sorry meant to say the injury was caused on a hybrid pitch albeit I suppose his return might be on one too!

[strawclearer]

Both were caused by seemingly innocuous side step movements and resulting in them collapsing in a heap of agony without another player close. Is this just a coincidence or is it do do with the grip on the studs being too solid to take a sideways movement. I can never recall such injures occurring in such circumstances on an old fashioned mud and grass pitch.

Anyone got any thoughts on the matter?

I've no empirical evidence but common sense and personal experience suggest that too firm a grip can cause problems.

I managed to do a 'Kurtley Beale' - a torn patella tendon/ligament which had to be re-attached to a broken and seriously displaced kneecap once they'd found it hiding round the other side of my leg! The cause? Trying to heave a leg-spin bowler over cow corner in the Leics Cricket League - no-one near me but my studs caught for just a split second.

The surgeon who put me back together had previously put an amateur golfer back together after he'd done the same thing trying to extricate himself from the rough. He explained that we're built to go forwards - not sideways!

[Ads677]

There's a photo of Cashton on the Beep site http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39474178 which shows him with what look like grazes or burns on one knee - caused by the Allianz pitch?

[Roly]

There's a photo of Cashton on the Beep site http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39474178 which shows him with what look like grazes or burns on one knee - caused by the Allianz pitch?

I noticed there were several players with quite nasty grazes on their knees in the Saracens v Glasgow match at the weekend.