England Team for NZ

[bluntiger]

To be honest, two to three years ago, I thought England had a huge wealth of talent coming through the ranks and would provide England with a golden era of test rugby. Remember, we had all the following in the ranks, all in their early 20's.

Haskell, Croft, Narraway, Hipkiss, Hartley, Kennedy, Armitage D, Rees, Cipriani, Palmer, Stevens, Lipman, Barkeley, Care, Geraghty, Flutey, Flood, Armitage S, Sackey, Varndell, Tate, Blaze, Deacon, Forster, Allen, Banahan, Waldouck, Ojo, Wigglesworth, Monye, Foden, Abendanon, Crane, Hartley, Kennedy, Morgan, Robshaw, Skinner, Ward-smith.

That is 39 players. My concern is why England have not managed to convert ONE of those player into a world XV player. NOT ONE. Sure, some still have the potential and some have come close - Haskell, Croft, Armitage .....? But in reality, not one has even cemented their place in the England team never mind a World XV.

Why? Perhaps we have too much talent and can't make our minds up. Some have had difficulties with injuries or off-the-field issues. But, for not even one of that crop to make it means there are other issues of irratic selection, short-term thinking or straight poor development management.

And now we have the next wave of talent - the likes of Twelvetrees, Cato, Young, Youngs, Corbisiero, Lawes, Green, Barritt etc. etc. etc. What will become of this wave?

I say, pick 25-30 of the best talend and mix in 10-12 seasoned pros / inspirational players and develop the team adding 3-4 each year and stay with a core team.

Right now, once Wilkinson is pencilled into the team sheet, Johnno has to start to think about selection. Most of us could name 10+ of both the Irish and Welsh team to play in the 6 nations NOW. I couldn't name more than 3-4 of the English team!

[drc_007]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment I should point out you have a few duplicates in the 39, but you could probably add a few more props. Ward-Smith was probably not in his early 20's.

I think about 14 have been unavailable for the AI due to injury/suspension, is this an unusually high percentage?

[bluntiger]

By the way, has anyone listened to a Steve Borthwick interview recently?

It is like someone has sent him on a 'positive public speaking' course. Utter drivvle delivered with an irritating 'I'm being positive' tone that comes across like he is talking to a bunch of 8-year olds telling them a nursery rhyme!

How about some honest straight-talking!

[k1]

NZ to win by 10.

As few as that?

At least 20 I fear!

Yes, perhaps I was being a little optimistic!

Obviously Erinle/Hipkiss isn't a great midfield. Banahan isn't your 1st choice winger. Armitage will drop in at full-back when fit. But the backline isn't where England's problems lie. It's hard for them to make anything of the ball they receive when the forwards are not going forward.

The weak link in the pack, and the main hindrance to the development of the team IMO, is Borthwick. You can't complain about a lack of forward momentum from your pack when your own captain constantly gets smashed backwards. A heavy defeat against NZ should give MJ the ammunition required to drop Borthwick from the squad altogether, and start rebuilding with a new pack. Hopefully, MJ will be given until the 6N to prove himself.

[G.K]

The problem with MJ and the other coaches is that like previous coaches that determination becomes stubborness which then becomes denial. Bortwhick (nothing against him personally by the way) is a classic example. Few thought he was worth a place let alone as captain but MJ has persevered with him long after it was obvious to just about anyone with eyes that he should not have done so.

The thing that has always baffled me is that some players get dropped at the drop of a hat and yet others stay in the team game after game under performing. As others point out the current (and recent) coaches seem unable to be able to put together a winning team even with all the talent available.

I fear that with the MJ era that soon another two years may now have been lost and unless things turn around in the 6N then that might be the end of the road as we only have at most one more opportunity to change horses before the RWC.

[Will S]

I am seriously conflicted on how I want this weekend to play out.

I obviously don’t want England to lose, no matter how inevitable this may look, but if for some miracle we do win then where will that leave us? If we do happen to win, and in doing so completely change round the teams fortune by beat one of the best teams on the planet, you can’t exactly go dropping players left right and centre. Does this mean that this will be our 6 Nations team for next year???

You are almost left thinking that a complete hammering might force the sort of changes England no doubt need for their long term prosperity. A complete re-think could be the catalyst for a new captain and a new batch of younger players coming through.

[k1]

I know what you mean Will S. Conflicted is the right word. As an England fan, I would like to see England beat the ABs. But, I think it could be for the good of the team to receive a bit of a thrashing as it would force the hand of change. I wouldn't like to see this team start in the 6Ns.

[Richard]

Totally negative team selection, picked for defence and kick and rush, no pace, no brains, we are playing by numbers. I expect wholesale coaching changes b4 the 6 nations(will we beat Italy?)

[Adamspoon]

I was pulling my hair out and shouting at the computer when i first saw this team but, having had time to mull it all over, i'm not quite as frustrated.

Trying to see the positives, it looks like Johnson has realised that there is no point continually kicking possession away, especially to the NZ back three.

It's going to be stick it up your jumper time, looking to the big boys to take some crash ball into contact and grind our way upfield into JW's range. Croft and Geraghty are nowhere near as suited to this game plan as Erinle and Worsley. Hopefully they can use Banahan's bulk properly this week as well.

It won't be pretty but if we can keep the defence tight, keep our discipline, sneak the points when they're on offer and still be in touch by the 60 minute mark then we're in with a shout.

Then bring Croft, Geraghty and Tait on and step up the pace right up as everyone's tiring.

Who knows!

[Owly tiger]

By the way, has anyone listened to a Steve Borthwick interview recently?

It is like someone has sent him on a 'positive public speaking' course. Utter drivvle delivered with an irritating 'I'm being positive' tone that comes across like he is talking to a bunch of 8-year olds telling them a nursery rhyme!

How about some honest straight-talking!

I miss Corry as England captain. Yeah, we lost, but at least he was honest about himself and the team.

Borthwick makes him look like Johnno!

[Ze Stade Fan]

Haskell at number 8 ?

We'll see how he fares. Actually I won't see the game over here so keep me updated. Thanks.

[kingol22]

It won't be pretty but if we can keep the defence tight, keep our discipline, sneak the points when they're on offer and still be in touch by the 60 minute mark then we're in with a shout.

Then bring Croft, Geraghty and Tait on and step up the pace right up as everyone's tiring.

Who knows!

Dream on we will be no where near after 60 mins

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

I spent most of last weeks game laughing at how poor England were, I may well need hospital attention this week. Even allowing for injuries this is a shocking team. Erinle & Hipkiss the AB's must be petrified..........................NOT!

[Mr_Ben]

conflicted for me sums it up very well.

I'm struggling to decide whether it's worth taking 2 hours out of my day to watch what I fear will be an incredibly frustrating and quite possibly humiliating thrashing for England or whether I should just get on with doing other things which won't leave me angry.

Like others, there is a part of me that wants England to be thrashed as there won't be possible to continue to make excuses.

However given his clearly apparent stubborn streak re Borthwick I'm increasingly convinced Johnno won't drop him no matter what, which unfortunately leaves me thinking that the only solution is for Borthwick to get so badly smashed at some point today that he gets an injury serious enough to mean he's not able to play for most of the rest of this season.