Doom and Gloom

[Old Hob]

Not bothered about Europe but happy for the clubs finances

If Gloucester were to win the Challenge Cup, they would take the 8th English place in the Champions Cup....Tigers would then be in the Challenge Cup if they finish 8th!

Ohhhhh and that would really be the final nail in the coffin for this season horribilus

Not if we keep playing like this! At least in the challenge cup fewer people would notice.

[sapajo]

If Gloucester were to win the Challenge Cup, they would take the 8th English place in the Champions Cup....Tigers would then be in the Challenge Cup if they finish 8th!

Ohhhhh and that would really be the final nail in the coffin for this season horribilus

Not if we keep playing like this! At least in the challenge cup fewer people would notice.

[Ian Cant]

One step at a time. Not bothered about which European competition we are in as we need to finish this season well.
Secondly fitness is an issue, then whoever is fitness coach has to be brave enough to see help: I would as I’d at to be the best at the job for the sake of the team!
At Saints last week I watched the Saints’ warm up as I was at that end of the ground: the intensity took me back to the Johnno years of success and the early times of Cockerill and Howard! Risky but impressive.
Our defence with 15 on the pitch is a huge positive but keeping our discipline is another key issue.

[MCC1964]

If Gloucester were to win the Challenge Cup, they would take the 8th English place in the Champions Cup....Tigers would then be in the Challenge Cup if they finish 8th!

Ohhhhh and that would really be the final nail in the coffin for this season horribilus

Not if we keep playing like this! At least in the challenge cup fewer people would notice.

And Gloucester won’t win if they play like they did against Exeter today. Even our old boy Charlie was replaced by a number 9! Admittedly they do have injury issues, so maybe it was a necessity to give their number 9 a chance to have time at 10.

[LE18]

One step at a time. Not bothered about which European competition we are in as we need to finish this season well.
Secondly fitness is an issue, then whoever is fitness coach has to be brave enough to see help: I would as I’d at to be the best at the job for the sake of the team!
At Saints last week I watched the Saints’ warm up as I was at that end of the ground: the intensity took me back to the Johnno years of success and the early times of Cockerill and Howard! Risky but impressive.
Our defence with 15 on the pitch is a huge positive but keeping our discipline is another key issue.

I was also at Saints last week and postered that I thought our forwards were flogging themselves to death in the warm up which seemed more excessive to me than Saints.

Was that also the same yesterday and reason why we looked knackered? Are we over doing it in warm up?

[Not a jock]

If you believe half the twaddle on this forum, you'd think that Tigers are the only club to suffer from:
- international call ups
- injuries to key players
- dodgy referees
- media bias
- obsession with kicking away possession
- churn of coaching team
- star players underperforming

If so, perhaps a trip to Specsavers is called for to request a different prescription to the rose-tinted one.

With the exception of Falcons, the gap between top and the rest is small. SCW's RWC success was apparently built on small incremental improvements - some clubs have done so relative to the others by dint of better coaches perhaps. These things are cyclical - keep the faith. The problem is that Tigers' last success cycle was very brief. Some former glory clubs have been waiting much, much longer eg Bath.

[ay2oh]

If you believe half the twaddle on this forum, you'd think that Tigers are the only club to suffer from:
- international call ups
- injuries to key players
- dodgy referees
- media bias
- obsession with kicking away possession
- churn of coaching team
- star players underperforming

If so, perhaps a trip to Specsavers is called for to request a different prescription to the rose-tinted one.

With the exception of Falcons, the gap between top and the rest is small. SCW's RWC success was apparently built on small incremental improvements - some clubs have done so relative to the others by dint of better coaches perhaps. These things are cyclical - keep the faith. The problem is that Tigers' last success cycle was very brief. Some former glory clubs have been waiting much, much longer eg Bath.

Think you need to do some research. To my knowledge Tigers are the only team to have their entire coaching staff taken and also one of only two teams to have 10 players missing at World Cup for first 4 games. Unfortunately your attempt at minimising our issues has fallen flat

[Old Hob]

If you believe half the twaddle on this forum, you'd think that Tigers are the only club to suffer from:
- international call ups
- injuries to key players
- dodgy referees
- media bias
- obsession with kicking away possession
- churn of coaching team
- star players underperforming

If so, perhaps a trip to Specsavers is called for to request a different prescription to the rose-tinted one.

With the exception of Falcons, the gap between top and the rest is small. SCW's RWC success was apparently built on small incremental improvements - some clubs have done so relative to the others by dint of better coaches perhaps. These things are cyclical - keep the faith. The problem is that Tigers' last success cycle was very brief. Some former glory clubs have been waiting much, much longer eg Bath.

This may be true. However, we are not just any other club. We are Leicester Tigers and we expect better.

[Stephen18]

Overall this season the whole "Tigers" brand etc had looked a bit off, stick it all together & it creates a scenario of it all being a bit.

The team(s) results & performances haven't been great.
We have had a issue with a coach in both the Men's & Womens team.
Another salary cap fine.
The general standard of communication from the club being poor.
The financial situation of Tigers & the pro. game in England in general being a basket case.

Add it all together & it's makes everything seem worse than it probably is.

The coaches deserve time to prove themselves, constantly changing gets you nowhere see numerous football clubs for example.

The club as a whole needs to buck it's ideas up.

As for player recruitment it seems to have been less effective since McGinty "left".

Mcginty has absolutely been one of the biggest loses along with Walter’s, our recruiting as been extremely reminiscent of 5/6 years ago, of bring in average players, since Borthwick bough in Wilkes to recruit, who then bought in his brother to run the academy and since then been one progress through there either.

If you are going to suggest nepotism with the two Wilks brother maybe get the order right because David Wilks was massive in transforming our academy when he was brought in as academy manager nearly 9 years ago!!!

Your absolutely right I hadn’t realised he’d been here that long I thought he’d come in in 21/22 but that was just a coaching change. But my original point was about Bothwick removing Mcginty who in my opinion did our best recruitment in years with his agent since which it fell off a cliff. So is as much to blame for the current club issues as anyone.
But looking at the acadamy now I’ve had to edit this as I originally put down it had produced 5 starters in those 9 years, bout have been told it’s actually only 4 as Chessum was released at 18 and bought back on as a senior at 20.

[Not a jock]

If you believe half the twaddle on this forum, you'd think that Tigers are the only club to suffer from:
- international call ups
- injuries to key players
- dodgy referees
- media bias
- obsession with kicking away possession
- churn of coaching team
- star players underperforming

If so, perhaps a trip to Specsavers is called for to request a different prescription to the rose-tinted one.

With the exception of Falcons, the gap between top and the rest is small. SCW's RWC success was apparently built on small incremental improvements - some clubs have done so relative to the others by dint of better coaches perhaps. These things are cyclical - keep the faith. The problem is that Tigers' last success cycle was very brief. Some former glory clubs have been waiting much, much longer eg Bath.

Think you need to do some research. To my knowledge Tigers are the only team to have their entire coaching staff taken and also one of only two teams to have 10 players missing at World Cup for first 4 games. Unfortunately your attempt at minimising our issues has fallen flat

Ah - lies, damned lies and statistics and all that. By my reckoning the numbers of players from each club at RWC'23 and 6N'24 were (including injury call-ups):

Club RWC'23 6N'24
Bath 6 11
Bristol 7 2
Exeter 3 4
Gloucester 9 2
Harlequins 7 7
Leicester 11 6
Newcastle 4 2
Northampton 6 8
Sale 5 6
Saracens 12 8

So, yes - Tigers and Saracens most impacted by RWC. Newcastle, Exeter & Sale least so. But that finished six months ago and many non-England players weren't subjected to complusary rest periods.

I'd argue that current form is more likely disrupted by the much more recent 2024 Six Nations. Despite that Northampton, Saracens and Bath seem to be coping.

There's no escaping the coaching hiatus issue but all the others apply to all clubs to a greater or lesser extent. With the benefit of hindsight it now seems obvious that SB was on secondment from England to Tigers to get some experience as head coach. Wih even limited success it was only a mater oftime before here turned to England. After winning the title in 2022, the 2022/23 season didn't go that well before he left?

IMO the main reason for the dip in performance is becuse several of the most influential players in the 2022 winning team have left and their replacements haven't been of the same consistently high standard at club level eg Ford, Genge. It's resulted in ateam that less than the sum of its parts.

[RagingBull]

Your absolutely right I hadn’t realised he’d been here that long I thought he’d come in in 21/22 but that was just a coaching change. But my original point was about Bothwick removing Mcginty who in my opinion did our best recruitment in years with his agent since which it fell off a cliff. So is as much to blame for the current club issues as anyone.
But looking at the acadamy now I’ve had to edit this as I originally put down it had produced 5 starters in those 9 years, bout have been told it’s actually only 4 as Chessum was released at 18 and bought back on as a senior at 20.

not really the academy’s job though the starters.

You can’t complain about tigers not giving younger players a chance and also complain about the talent coming through.

He arrived in 2015 summer, reality is the first true crop of his u18 will be another 2 years. So at the push you could say the 2017 group was his first actual wave of players

I kinda struggle to see how many u24 should be in the perceived starting 15? I’m all for youth in the squad but same time you need experience next to them
I would say 4 starters from the academy u24 is a pretty good turnover. Would be interested to see how many other teams in the league have that kinda number

On Chessum interesting thing
“Ollie came to Nottingham through a partnership with Leicester Tigers,” said Fowkes. “Dave Wilkes, their head of academy there, had been working with Ollie for a brief time, only six months, they thought he had some talent and wanted to keep him in the game.

“He came over to Nottingham and came into the full-time environment there, which he needed with a full-time S&C [strength and conditioning] and coaching programme that allowed him to flourish really in that first season.“

[Tiglon]

Your absolutely right I hadn’t realised he’d been here that long I thought he’d come in in 21/22 but that was just a coaching change. But my original point was about Bothwick removing Mcginty who in my opinion did our best recruitment in years with his agent since which it fell off a cliff. So is as much to blame for the current club issues as anyone.
But looking at the acadamy now I’ve had to edit this as I originally put down it had produced 5 starters in those 9 years, bout have been told it’s actually only 4 as Chessum was released at 18 and bought back on as a senior at 20.

not really the academy’s job though the starters.

You can’t complain about tigers not giving younger players a chance and also complain about the talent coming through.

He arrived in 2015 summer, reality is the first true crop of his u18 will be another 2 years. So at the push you could say the 2017 group was his first actual wave of players

I kinda struggle to see how many u24 should be in the perceived starting 15? I’m all for youth in the squad but same time you need experience next to them
I would say 4 starters from the academy u24 is a pretty good turnover. Would be interested to see how many other teams in the league have that kinda number

Worth mentioning that those 4 are all England internationals, and I would bet on 2/3 being on the next Lions tour - they are not just club starters.

I'd call that a successful academy.

[mol2]

The desire to see youngsters get game time is also a reflection that some of the players getting picked are pretty ordinary and are not going to improve with more experience.