Championship Clubs Promotion

[chipnchase]

Sums up rugby for me, we'd rather argue about what we don't have than bring in what we do have.

Two clubs with say 5k stadiums is an extra 10k bums on seats every weekend and an additional game every week for TV/Marketing/ Sponsors.

If the existing 10 clubs where selling out 15k-25k stadiums every week they might have a point but the Prem is a shell of its former self and needs new life and blood to increase interest again rather than looking at ways to get Wasps (a club with no fanbase, players or stadium) back at the top table.

[Rugbygramps]

Sums up rugby for me, we'd rather argue about what we don't have than bring in what we do have.

Two clubs with say 5k stadiums is an extra 10k bums on seats every weekend and an additional game every week for TV/Marketing/ Sponsors.

If the existing 10 clubs where selling out 15k-25k stadiums every week they might have a point but the Prem is a shell of its former self and needs new life and blood to increase interest again rather than looking at ways to get Wasps (a club with no fanbase, players or stadium) back at the top table.

If that was all that’s involved and they could guarantee 5k bums on seats then possibly.
It doesn’t alter the fact that they would have survive in a league where all the clubs are currently struggling financially

[GB72]

I guess this is my issue with Ealing at the moment. They are paying the players and getting in a team that is a fair heft above others in the league but, despite their statements, they are not doing anything to comply with current requirements and nor are their crowds, from my limited knowledge, anything special.

There are clubs below them without the massive player budget who have strong, reliable following and in some cases plans to comply with the promotion requirements. The trouble is that, until they seem some of that Premiership money, they cannot compete with the player budget that Ealing are being bankrolled with.

That results in the situation we have now, Ealing are effectively blocking the path for possible future promotion for other teams without doing the necessary to take the step up themselves.

Just my opinion, and probably not a very good one, but if you wanted more teams in the Prem, and I do, I would ask all of the Championship clubs to put forward their proposals based on grounds, budgets, attendances etc and 2 be selected/voted in to the Prem. Contrary to what most would want, I would then freeze promotion for a few years to allow them to establish themselves and then I would look to promotion play off matches each year. I would even go as far as saying that the match is between the bottom of the prem and the highest placed club reaching agreed criteria (which should be based on funding and attendance and not capacity). That would stop anyone with deep pockets and shallow ambitions blocking the path for others.

[Hot_Charlie]

Sums up rugby for me, we'd rather argue about what we don't have than bring in what we do have.

Two clubs with say 5k stadiums is an extra 10k bums on seats every weekend and an additional game every week for TV/Marketing/ Sponsors.

Fact alert: Ealing can't even manage a steady average of 1000.

Their average has gone up about 100-200 people in about 5 years. They have one of the worst attendances in the Championship.

[Hot_Charlie]

I guess this is my issue with Ealing at the moment. They are paying the players and getting in a team that is a fair heft above others in the league but, despite their statements, they are not doing anything to comply with current requirements and nor are their crowds, from my limited knowledge, anything special.

There are clubs below them without the massive player budget who have strong, reliable following and in some cases plans to comply with the promotion requirements. The trouble is that, until they seem some of that Premiership money, they cannot compete with the player budget that Ealing are being bankrolled with.

That results in the situation we have now, Ealing are effectively blocking the path for possible future promotion for other teams without doing the necessary to take the step up themselves.

Just my opinion, and probably not a very good one, but if you wanted more teams in the Prem, and I do, I would ask all of the Championship clubs to put forward their proposals based on grounds, budgets, attendances etc and 2 be selected/voted in to the Prem. Contrary to what most would want, I would then freeze promotion for a few years to allow them to establish themselves and then I would look to promotion play off matches each year. I would even go as far as saying that the match is between the bottom of the prem and the highest placed club reaching agreed criteria (which should be based on funding and attendance and not capacity). That would stop anyone with deep pockets and shallow ambitions blocking the path for others.

This is 100% correct.

[johnthegriff]

They have tried the play off between bottom Premiership and top Championship before and it does not work. The Premiership team has players used to playing at a higher standard, and they have probably been coasting for a few matches knowing that the only important game is the play off match. The Championship team is fighting every week to ensure top place and the opportunity of promotion, on achieving the play off they suddenly discover the gulf between the two divisions. I suggest bottom = automatic relegation, top = automatic promotion. If we could get to the dizzy heights of a 14 team top division I would not be adverse to second bottom and second top playing each other but that is a long way off.
Of course any promoted team will need to strengthen its squad to cope at the higher level to avoid going straight back down.

[GB72]

They have tried the play off between bottom Premiership and top Championship before and it does not work. The Premiership team has players used to playing at a higher standard, and they have probably been coasting for a few matches knowing that the only important game is the play off match. The Championship team is fighting every week to ensure top place and the opportunity of promotion, on achieving the play off they suddenly discover the gulf between the two divisions. I suggest bottom = automatic relegation, top = automatic promotion. If we could get to the dizzy heights of a 14 team top division I would not be adverse to second bottom and second top playing each other but that is a long way off.
Of course any promoted team will need to strengthen its squad to cope at the higher level to avoid going straight back down.

I have no objection to straight promotion and relegation but the hurdle remains that you have a team blocking the way that has a far greater player budget but no fans and poor facilities. You cannot have a team with 1000 turning up a week being a representative of the top league in club rugby.

I also have concerns about the boom and bust mentality that being a boing boing club between leagues can cause. I would, perhaps, be happy with straight promotion and relegation every other year to allow clubs to sign players on decent 2 year contracts to take into account the revenue dips if there is relegation as they will not be bound by higher wage bills.

My main concern though is still that budget and attendance are the key factors in promotion. How many people can you get through the gate and what can you afford to spend to increase your chances of staying up.

[ourla]

If the criteria is budget, infrastructure, fan base rather than on the field performance than you are talking about US-style franchising which everyone seems to be against.

[GB72]

If the criteria is budget, infrastructure, fan base rather than on the field performance than you are talking about US-style franchising which everyone seems to be against.

I am not sure that I am against it when it comes to bringing teams in to the premiership. The teams have to be fit for purpose and the massive cut in RFU funding has left them short of that mark.

You have clubs with support but no player budget and club with money but no support or facilities and nobody that shows the complete picture.

Overall I would have support as the number one factor. That provides income and some stability. Everything else can follow but if you cannot put bums on seats you have failed before you begin.

[Hot_Charlie]

If the criteria is budget, infrastructure, fan base rather than on the field performance than you are talking about US-style franchising which everyone seems to be against.

I think that's a really poor comparison. We're talking about championship rugby. Let's compare a couple of clubs, Ealing and Doncaster.

Ealing have chosen not to meet the stadium criteria required for promotion over several seasons when they could have been preparing for a proper push for promotion with a gun sqaud and a fit stadium. However, rather than invest in infrastructure, they've assembled a squad heavy with players of Premiership quality and experience beyond any other Championship club, almost to the point where they are guaranteed to win the league every season, but have done next to nothing on the stadium.

Meanwhile, Doncaster have chosen to fulfil the criteria for promotion. However, in doing so they aren't able to match the playing budget and hence aren't as successful as Ealing. This could apply for several other clubs in the league.

And whilst Ealing continue to dominate on the field, where is the incentive for other clubs other than Doncaster (and their admirable efforts) to even bother getting their stadia assessed for eligibility. If there's next to no chance of winning the league, whats the point.

It's bed-blocking by Ealing.

[Rugbygramps]

If the criteria is budget, infrastructure, fan base rather than on the field performance than you are talking about US-style franchising which everyone seems to be against.

I am not sure that I am against it when it comes to bringing teams in to the premiership. The teams have to be fit for purpose and the massive cut in RFU funding has left them short of that mark.

You have clubs with support but no player budget and club with money but no support or facilities and nobody that shows the complete picture.

Overall I would have support as the number one factor. That provides income and some stability. Everything else can follow but if you cannot put bums on seats you have failed before you begin.

I think this correct.
Over a 20 plus game season High Budget = Higher Chance of Success
Higher Revenue = Higher Budget
Higher Attendance = Higher Revenue.

I understand that is a little simplistic and you have to take into account the effect of advertising streams and wealthy benefactors, but imo that is the basic equation.
Cup competitions can be a little different as shown by Saints and Quins success at the weekend, but odds are still on a Leinster v Toulouse final

[LE18]

My advice to Ealing is:- go ahead and apply for planning permission, this wouldn't be at a massive cost and it would show the RFU they are serious. It may also attract extra fans knowing this and wishing to see Prem rugby.
If the RFU stil lsay no, but the Planning Permission is granted, then the club dont necessarily have to go ahead with the development, but at least thr RFU would have to take their application much more seriously.

[ourla]

One thing is for sure the RFU/Premiership aren't helping/driving it and until they do I don't see much changing.

[Hot_Charlie]

My advice to Ealing is:- go ahead and apply for planning permission, this wouldn't be at a massive cost and it would show the RFU they are serious. It may also attract extra fans knowing this and wishing to see Prem rugby.
If the RFU stil lsay no, but the Planning Permission is granted, then the club dont necessarily have to go ahead with the development, but at least thr RFU would have to take their application much more seriously.

They need both the PP and the evidence of available funding to complete the work.

There's obviously a reason they aren't doing it, be it they think it will be unsuccessful at a local planning level or they don't have the concrete medium to long-term funding in place.

There's no apparent external hurdle from either of the villainous RFU or Prem Rugby to stop them doing it.

Again, as I've said before, the evidence suggests they aren't serious under the current ownership, be it through not wanting to commit to the above, or because they are just trying to be disruptors.

[GB72]

My advice to Ealing is:- go ahead and apply for planning permission, this wouldn't be at a massive cost and it would show the RFU they are serious. It may also attract extra fans knowing this and wishing to see Prem rugby.
If the RFU stil lsay no, but the Planning Permission is granted, then the club dont necessarily have to go ahead with the development, but at least thr RFU would have to take their application much more seriously.

They need both the PP and the evidence of available funding to complete the work.

There's obviously a reason they aren't doing it, be it they think it will be unsuccessful at a local planning level or they don't have the concrete medium to long-term funding in place.

There's no apparent external hurdle from either of the villainous RFU or Prem Rugby to stop them doing it.

Again, as I've said before, the evidence suggests they aren't serious under the current ownership, be it through not wanting to commit to the above, or because they are just trying to be disruptors.

Just biding their time, let the media uproar grow about them not being promoted and about the 10 team prem then just wait until rules are relaxed enough to get the promotion irrespective then start taking that TV money without having to make any capital expenditure.