Leinster mind games begin? - Champions Cup (A) - Saturday 06th April 2024 - KO:8:00pm

[Voyager1]

Unfortunately when Ireland scored their 3rd try I switched off to watch the snooker.
I definitely thought it would be a cricket score, and was therefore pleasantly surprised
when I saw the final score of Ireland 36 - Leicester Tigers 22.

I am quite disappointed in myself for doing so. What I did see in those minutes I watched
were 3 tries by Ireland, the two of which were forward passes, and a great try by Pollard.

After what I’ve read on this forum I think the Tigers can take a lot of heart from this game
especially because we had three major players sidelined. Also the officiating seems to be
at the forefront of the supporters disillusionment, this is a common theme which rather dominates
the European Rugby Competitions because of the variety of country of origins of the referees
inconsistencies. Definitely a head scratcher. !!!

I do definitely believe this game will hold us I good stead for the remaining Premiership fixtures.
Here’s hoping…….

[Ian Cant]

Really enjoyed the way we tried to play last night. Now as others have said, hopefully we will put in the best performances of the season v Saints, Bristol, Sale and Exeter. Saints were very good today but they did give quite a few penalties away: they have a very strong defence and their attack can punish teams from anywhere. It will be another game where we will be underdogs!
Our defence will somehow have to improve significantly to be in with a chance and the same will apply to all the remaining games.
I quite like Steward on the wing particularly if he comes off it looking for the ball.
Shilcock certainly has a bit of the wow factor when he starts at full back and although Pollard was ok last night his World Cup form hasn’t been seen and unlike previous Tiger Fly Halves( Stransky, Goode, Flood, Burns and Ford) he doesn’t seem to boss the back line enough in defence or attack! Class is permanent and so hopefully his best form will return vSaints!

[Tiglon]

The team proved me wrong yesterday, a strong performance but just not as accurate as Leinster and for whatever reason got on the wrong side of the ref.

Cracknell in particular had a very good game and he was one who I thought would struggle. The forwards in general showed up very well, Cronin was another standout. Unfortunately the Leinster bench is ridiculously good.

Encouraging for the rest of the season, hopefully the Glouc prem match was an illness-related performance, otherwise we have some consistency problems.

[SASCOkid]

Really enjoyed the way we tried to play last night. Now as others have said, hopefully we will put in the best performances of the season v Saints, Bristol, Sale and Exeter. Saints were very good today but they did give quite a few penalties away: they have a very strong defence and their attack can punish teams from anywhere. It will be another game where we will be underdogs!
Our defence will somehow have to improve significantly to be in with a chance and the same will apply to all the remaining games.
I quite like Steward on the wing particularly if he comes off it looking for the ball.
Shilcock certainly has a bit of the wow factor when he starts at full back and although Pollard was ok last night his World Cup form hasn’t been seen and unlike previous Tiger Fly Halves( Stransky, Goode, Flood, Burns and Ford) he doesn’t seem to boss the back line enough in defence or attack! Class is permanent and so hopefully his best form will return vSaints!

Given our position in the table we'll be the underdogs for the rest of the season now.

[watsonjm]

The best team in the day won. There were refereeing errors but aren't there always?. Personally I think we need to get our best fullback playing at fullback, Kata for me is a great player but he is not a distributor and is not our best 12. Obviously I don't know who is fit and available but I think we would be better with Kelly at 12 and Porter, Scott or Cokanasiga at 13.
I do hope that for Saints we have Reffell, Martin and Chessum back although I thought the guys selected in the back did well, they were unlucky with some of the scrum decisions.

Completely agree with this. Would like to see Kata on the wing with licence to come looking for the ball. Despite Freddie being the best full back in the squad we look better in attached with Shilcock at 15. However that could change with Kelly at 12 as they have played Very well together in the past.

[Rugbygramps]

How the mighty are fallen. From Steward being one of the first names on both England’s and Tigers team sheets he has been dropped from one and moved positionally in the other, with one of the reasons being lack of creativity elsewhere in the back line.
I hope Tigers are looking after him properly as he still a very young man who achieved international success at a very early age, man of the match and man of the series awards, and there must be questions in his mind about just what’s going on.

I may be old school but for me the primary job of a full back is to be a defensive rock at the back and be able to come into the line at pace in an attacking sense.
I don’t know what his contract status is, and I know he has lots of close friends at Tigers, but if this isn’t managed properly I could see his mind being turned by a contract offer from elsewhere with a guarantee of the 15 shirt

[GB72]

That is not unrealistic but the other option is that perhaps he has to develop a second string to his bow to get an England bench spot if Furbank remains the number one choice.

In the long run I hope that this is a temporary thing where we are concerned until we can develop a back line with some distribution at 12 and so, hopefully, an attach coach next season can work on that and allow Steward to play on in his preferred position.

[ay2oh]

How the mighty are fallen. From Steward being one of the first names on both England’s and Tigers team sheets he has been dropped from one and moved positionally in the other, with one of the reasons being lack of creativity elsewhere in the back line.
I hope Tigers are looking after him properly as he still a very young man who achieved international success at a very early age, man of the match and man of the series awards, and there must be questions in his mind about just what’s going on.

I may be old school but for me the primary job of a full back is to be a defensive rock at the back and be able to come into the line at pace in an attacking sense.
I don’t know what his contract status is, and I know he has lots of close friends at Tigers, but if this isn’t managed properly I could see his mind being turned by a contract offer from elsewhere with a guarantee of the 15 shirt

Freddie signed a new contract in September 22 although we weren’t told the length of the deal my best guess would be end of 24-25 season.

[johnthegriff]

I entirely agree with Rugbygramps, his description of the role of rugby fullback is accurate and Steward is ideally suited to.it. He will.I am sure do a job if selected on the wing but there are many better wingers, Freddie is like Tim Stimpson a great fullback but less great elsewhere in the team. Our back defence on Saurday was non existent, instead that we were so much more attacking with a playmaker fullback yet two of our tries came from front row forwards. I imply no criticism of Shilcock he was working to the game plan, if we need another playmaker in the team get him in at 12 or a winger who can move off his wing into the line like Rambeni or Nandolo.

[Pellsey]

I entirely agree with Rugbygramps, his description of the role of rugby fullback is accurate and Steward is ideally suited to.it. He will.I am sure do a job if selected on the wing but there are many better wingers, Freddie is like Tim Stimpson a great fullback but less great elsewhere in the team. Our back defence on Saurday was non existent, instead that we were so much more attacking with a playmaker fullback yet two of our tries came from front row forwards. I imply no criticism of Shilcock he was working to the game plan, if we need another playmaker in the team get him in at 12 or a winger who can move off his wing into the line like Rambeni or Nandolo.

I completely agree with you both! Too much emphasis is on an attacking fullback, when we need to get the "first line" backs firing properly first. A fullback is the last line of defence, and that is where conceded tries on Saturday.

[Tiglon]

Wasn't the criticism of Steward a few months ago that he missed too many one on one tackles?

Once Leinster have broken your defensive line and have 5 players running at speed against your last defender, it really doesn't make any difference who your full back is.

[Rugbygramps]

Wasn't the criticism of Steward a few months ago that he missed too many one on one tackles?

Once Leinster have broken your defensive line and have 5 players running at speed against your last defender, it really doesn't make any difference who your full back is.

This is so true. I understand that the game is evolving but I was thinking back to some of the great fullbacks I’ve seen, JPR, William Henry Hare, Serge Blanco, Chris Latham, Christian Cullen, Jason Robinson, Josh Lewsey. All did the basics very well and were strong moving forward with the ball in hand, but I don’t think you could describe any of them as being a 2nd distributor

[westwinds31]

Wasn't the criticism of Steward a few months ago that he missed too many one on one tackles?

Once Leinster have broken your defensive line and have 5 players running at speed against your last defender, it really doesn't make any difference who your full back is.

...and that's the key. Stop them dead on the gain line so they can't get arms free to off-load to those flooding through. It's the speed of ball that kills most teams that play Leinster. There is literally not enough time to get off the floor and back into a defensive position to stop the next wave of attack.

[AViewFromLe2]

On the subject of Freddie, we can't have it both ways. We can't moan about the attack being dull or not good enough, and then then moan about the solution to that problem is by bringing in Shillcock.

Currently with Freddie at FB, we are probably defensively stronger, yet probably weaker in attack. Due to injuries we have had to move Freddie to the wing and bring in Shillcock. That has also meant we look better in attack, if marginally weaker in defence. Like others have said here and in other threads, the best attacking performance has been Quins and Leinster with Shillcock at 15 in the dual distribution role.

For me, we have a choice. We either go defensively stronger with Freddie at 15, and accept the attack may be weaker. Or we temporarily move Freddie to the wing and play Shillcock at 15, until the new attack coach arrives. I personally would choose the second one for now.

But we can't have it both ways, where we constantly moan about the state of the attack but then moan about the solution to the problem. (this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but as a forum in general)

[Rugbygramps]

On the subject of Freddie, we can't have it both ways. We can't moan about the attack being dull or not good enough, and then then moan about the solution to that problem is by bringing in Shillcock.

Currently with Freddie at FB, we are probably defensively stronger, yet probably weaker in attack. Due to injuries we have had to move Freddie to the wing and bring in Shillcock. That has also meant we look better in attack, if marginally weaker in defence. Like others have said here and in other threads, the best attacking performance has been Quins and Leinster with Shillcock at 15 in the dual distribution role.

For me, we have a choice. We either go defensively stronger with Freddie at 15, and accept the attack may be weaker. Or we temporarily move Freddie to the wing and play Shillcock at 15, until the new attack coach arrives. I personally would choose the second one for now.

But we can't have it both ways, where we constantly moan about the state of the attack but then moan about the solution to the problem. (this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but as a forum in general)

I would agree with you about the rest of this season max of 6 games to go. It is more after that and the effect it may have on Steward long term. New attack coach fresh ideas and a couple of centres who can do more than just truck it up and who knows.
Get your best players on the pitch in their best positions, but sometimes there has to be some colouring outside the lines