JVP

[sapajo]

I'm not sure whether I'm more baffled or amused about the criticism of our third choice scrum half, who probably earns less than the deputy manager of your local Tesco.

Whiteley consistently puts in 100% and performs to a higher level than many third choice 9's in the league.

Do some of you people buy a second hand Ford Focus for £5k and then complain it's not a Lamborghini?

No criticism of Whiteley from me (apologies if it's come across that way). As a 3rd choice 9 he is ideal, if not better than most if not all 3rd choice 9s in the prem. More of an illustration of what we have been missing with JVP absent. Whiteley has more than shown he is capable this season - and could be argued to have overtaken Lenny as current 2nd choice on form.

Not for me. Whiteley cannot box kick to save his life whereas BY clearly can. To suggest that Whiteley is ahead of the most capped England player beggars belief.

[sapajo]

I'm not sure whether I'm more baffled or amused about the criticism of our third choice scrum half, who probably earns less than the deputy manager of your local Tesco.

Whiteley consistently puts in 100% and performs to a higher level than many third choice 9's in the league.

Do some of you people buy a second hand Ford Focus for £5k and then complain it's not a Lamborghini?

He still cannot box kick and makes basic errors at key points in matches.

[GB72]

I'm not sure whether I'm more baffled or amused about the criticism of our third choice scrum half, who probably earns less than the deputy manager of your local Tesco.

Whiteley consistently puts in 100% and performs to a higher level than many third choice 9's in the league.

Do some of you people buy a second hand Ford Focus for £5k and then complain it's not a Lamborghini?

No criticism of Whiteley from me (apologies if it's come across that way). As a 3rd choice 9 he is ideal, if not better than most if not all 3rd choice 9s in the prem. More of an illustration of what we have been missing with JVP absent. Whiteley has more than shown he is capable this season - and could be argued to have overtaken Lenny as current 2nd choice on form.

Have to agree with your last comments. In my opinion, you are starting to see the years catching up with Lenny and perhaps some of the focus has gone with him looking towards the next stage in his life. Sounds harsh and no real criticism meant, just one of those things that was bound to happen eventually. Would love to see him have a role at the club post playing career but listening to his podcast, media work could certainly be on the horizon.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Agree on Whiteley, think he’s actually a really good player for someone who isn’t first choice. He’s also very good at getting some tempo into the defensive line at times and making crucial tackles.

Feel like if YBY is here next season then he needs to be playing at 100%. He was poor against Gloucester and expect better from a 100+ cap player.

[GB72]

Agree on Whiteley, think he’s actually a really good player for someone who isn’t first choice. He’s also very good at getting some tempo into the defensive line at times and making crucial tackles.

Feel like if YBY is here next season then he needs to be playing at 100%. He was poor against Gloucester and expect better from a 100+ cap player.

I thought YBY had already signed for next season. That said, I would not be massively surprised to see an end of season retirement or, if that is what he is looking for, a transition into a coaching roll. Personally get the feeling that media will be his future, there does appear to be some talent for it.

[mol2]

He certainly looked like he was mentally retired against Gloucester. No thoughts of running or sniping around the ruck. He needs to find some form to justify selection ahead of Whiteley.

[Tiglon]

I'm not sure whether I'm more baffled or amused about the criticism of our third choice scrum half, who probably earns less than the deputy manager of your local Tesco.

Whiteley consistently puts in 100% and performs to a higher level than many third choice 9's in the league.

Do some of you people buy a second hand Ford Focus for £5k and then complain it's not a Lamborghini?

He still cannot box kick and makes basic errors at key points in matches.

He definitely can box kick, I've seen him do it.

I've yet to come across a rugby player (or human being, for that matter) who doesn't make errors.

[sapajo]

It amazes me that a 29 year old scrum half who still cannot box kick properly is miraculously somehow now better than the most capped England player in history. I'm no fan of BY but at least he can box kick properly which is a very basic and essential skill of any scrum half. If anyone is deluded enough to think Whiteley can box kick properly just rewatch any game he played in and its abundantly obvious that he cannot not. None as blind as those that refuse to see.

[johnthegriff]

Whilst I agree that Ben Youngs has displayed a talent for the media I do hope he continues as a player for at least another season, I disagree with many of the comments about his performance against Gloucester, I also disagree with much of the criticism of Whitely. The last I heard rugby was a team game and rarely is one player or even one coach responsible for the win or the loss. Having said that I would like to have seen Edwards get chance to show what he can do before he is off loaded to make room for incoming players.

[Cagey Tiger]

It amazes me that a 29 year old scrum half who still cannot box kick properly is miraculously somehow now better than the most capped England player in history. I'm no fan of BY but at least he can box kick properly which is a very basic and essential skill of any scrum half. If anyone is deluded enough to think Whiteley can box kick properly just rewatch any game he played in and its abundantly obvious that he cannot not. None as blind as those that refuse to see.

Pot. Kettle.
You keep using Ben's record number of caps as justification of him being better than Whiteley. All players" abilities decline with age. Using your argument, Jason Leonard is (not was, is) a better prop than Ellis Genge. An extreme and obviously silly example, but one that follows on from your argument. Some on here feel that Ben is no longer the player that he was and could be behind Whiteley as an all round package. I have never played rugby (but have watched it for over 50 years) and dont feel that I have the level of expert knowledge to pass judgement.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I'm also not sure pointing to a performance where there was a bug going round the squad is the best argument for saying that Youngs powers have dwindled... most people when under the weather aren't as lively as when fully healthy.

[Rugbygramps]

I would hope we would get another season out of Lenny. There is no doubt he is enjoying his fledgling media career, and the kudos of being your nations most capped player will certainly help with the corporate gigs.
I would imagine that post World Cup it has taken some getting used to for him too, with it being the first time in a dozen or so years that he isn’t involved in the England set up

[Tiglon]

It amazes me that a 29 year old scrum half who still cannot box kick properly is miraculously somehow now better than the most capped England player in history. I'm no fan of BY but at least he can box kick properly which is a very basic and essential skill of any scrum half. If anyone is deluded enough to think Whiteley can box kick properly just rewatch any game he played in and its abundantly obvious that he cannot not. None as blind as those that refuse to see.

You're no fan of the most capped international in England's history who has spent his entire career at the club you support?

[sapajo]

It amazes me that a 29 year old scrum half who still cannot box kick properly is miraculously somehow now better than the most capped England player in history. I'm no fan of BY but at least he can box kick properly which is a very basic and essential skill of any scrum half. If anyone is deluded enough to think Whiteley can box kick properly just rewatch any game he played in and its abundantly obvious that he cannot not. None as blind as those that refuse to see.

You're no fan of the most capped international in England's history who has spent his entire career at the club you support?

I am no fan of the current form of BY but for me he is still a better 9 than Whiteley.

[LE18]

It amazes me that a 29 year old scrum half who still cannot box kick properly is miraculously somehow now better than the most capped England player in history. I'm no fan of BY but at least he can box kick properly which is a very basic and essential skill of any scrum half. If anyone is deluded enough to think Whiteley can box kick properly just rewatch any game he played in and its abundantly obvious that he cannot not. None as blind as those that refuse to see.

You're no fan of the most capped international in England's history who has spent his entire career at the club you support?

I am no fan of the current form of BY but for me he is still a better 9 than Whiteley.

I saw Ben about 3 weeks ago in Great Glen, he looked down in the dumps, I rekon he hasnt played/been selected much with such a long lay off, it has to effect a player like him he was used to playing week in week out, he needs to be playing regularly, if not starting then on the bench, playing has been his life, Just imagine kicking your heels all those weeks.
I wouldnt be surprised to see him starting in Dublin for all his experience, then JVP coming off the bench.