Tigers vs Gloucester (H) - Premiership - Friday 22nd March 2024 - KO:19.45

[kk20gb30]

Do supporters still believe our open play Defence is adequate ?

For me unaddressed , and has been so..

[trendylfj]

I said at the end of the Welsh game that TR looked knackered and that we should rest him and several replies said he always looks knackered - we have to rest him next week along with DC. An old adage is a kick is only as good as its chase and our chase was awful yesterday, yet we could and should have won (Shilcock has to improve his kicking off the tee or we can't play him as our kicker). Maul attack was good on the whole but too many important tackles were missed and that was the cause of 2 of their tries. Ruck wins were virtually non-existent as were sensible coaching decisions. Who was our 2nd choice kicker? Why did the instruction to swap not come? Steward is not bad off the tee????? Why was Kata allowed to stay on for so long after his problem first arose? (no problem seeing if he could run it off but it was clear he couldn't very quickly). I know he was our best player BUT??

[Bobmac]

Seems strange that every game after a break we have been lethargic and poor, Bristol 1st game), Exeter (after prem cup break) and now Gloucester!! seems strange. Would this of happened if Aled was still around?

[RagingBull]

Centres have become an issue again really.

Kata at 12 is the best back we have, also been signing of the season for me.
BUT leaves 13 as a issue, Kelly pre England call up was playing amazingly at 12. But he isn't a 13 that can handle quick backs against Sarries who have a bit more direct backs he works ok but he really struggles on the outside breaks. Porter is a very good attacking threat but again at 13 he weak on the outside in defence.

The reason we did so well in that prem winning season was because for the first time in years we had two genuinely class 13's in Scott and Moroni, Kelly and Porter thrived with them outside him.

12. Scott, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Scott
12. Porter, 13. Moroni
12. Porter, 13. Scott
12. Scott, 13. Porter
12. Kelly, 13. Porter

Kelly didn't play a single minute at 13.

I feel that Borthwick really did cost us long term not giving Moroni a new contract. I don't believe Falcons outbid I just feel Borthwick looked at stats and thought Moroni cap would be better spent elsewhere.

in defence we look a lot more superior with Scott at 13

[OakhamTiger32]

Centres have become an issue again really.

Kata at 12 is the best back we have, also been signing of the season for me.
BUT leaves 13 as a issue, Kelly pre England call up was playing amazingly at 12. But he isn't a 13 that can handle quick backs against Sarries who have a bit more direct backs he works ok but he really struggles on the outside breaks. Porter is a very good attacking threat but again at 13 he weak on the outside in defence.

The reason we did so well in that prem winning season was because for the first time in years we had two genuinely class 13's in Scott and Moroni, Kelly and Porter thrived with them outside him.

12. Scott, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Scott
12. Porter, 13. Moroni
12. Porter, 13. Scott
12. Scott, 13. Porter
12. Kelly, 13. Porter

Kelly didn't play a single minute at 13.

I feel that Borthwick really did cost us long term not giving Moroni a new contract. I don't believe Falcons outbid I just feel Borthwick looked at stats and thought Moroni cap would be better spent elsewhere.

in defence we look a lot more superior with Scott at 13

12. Kata
13. Perese

Backup Cokanasiga

Happy days

[RagingBull]

Centres have become an issue again really.

Kata at 12 is the best back we have, also been signing of the season for me.
BUT leaves 13 as a issue, Kelly pre England call up was playing amazingly at 12. But he isn't a 13 that can handle quick backs against Sarries who have a bit more direct backs he works ok but he really struggles on the outside breaks. Porter is a very good attacking threat but again at 13 he weak on the outside in defence.

The reason we did so well in that prem winning season was because for the first time in years we had two genuinely class 13's in Scott and Moroni, Kelly and Porter thrived with them outside him.

12. Scott, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Scott
12. Porter, 13. Moroni
12. Porter, 13. Scott
12. Scott, 13. Porter
12. Kelly, 13. Porter

Kelly didn't play a single minute at 13.

I feel that Borthwick really did cost us long term not giving Moroni a new contract. I don't believe Falcons outbid I just feel Borthwick looked at stats and thought Moroni cap would be better spent elsewhere.

in defence we look a lot more superior with Scott at 13

12. Kata
13. Perese

Backup Cokanasiga

Happy days

Great carriers, but just seems unbalanced like all 3 the are the same style?
I would still foresee teams getting out wide of us.

For every Kata you need a Scott
For Aki you need a Ringrose or Henshaw
For Nonu you need a Smith
For Kriel you need a DDA
For Ioane you need a Barrett

[DeadlyDunc]

Centres have become an issue again really.

Kata at 12 is the best back we have, also been signing of the season for me.
BUT leaves 13 as a issue, Kelly pre England call up was playing amazingly at 12. But he isn't a 13 that can handle quick backs against Sarries who have a bit more direct backs he works ok but he really struggles on the outside breaks. Porter is a very good attacking threat but again at 13 he weak on the outside in defence.

The reason we did so well in that prem winning season was because for the first time in years we had two genuinely class 13's in Scott and Moroni, Kelly and Porter thrived with them outside him.

12. Scott, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Scott
12. Porter, 13. Moroni
12. Porter, 13. Scott
12. Scott, 13. Porter
12. Kelly, 13. Porter

Kelly didn't play a single minute at 13.

I feel that Borthwick really did cost us long term not giving Moroni a new contract. I don't believe Falcons outbid I just feel Borthwick looked at stats and thought Moroni cap would be better spent elsewhere.

in defence we look a lot more superior with Scott at 13

12. Kata
13. Perese

Backup Cokanasiga

Happy days

Great carriers, but just seems unbalanced like all 3 the are the same style?
I would still foresee teams getting out wide of us.

For every Kata you need a Scott
For Aki you need a Ringrose or Henshaw
For Nonu you need a Smith
For Kriel you need a DDA
For Ioane you need a Barrett

I agree - i appreciate that what I am about to say doesn’t seem to fit with DMK style (I’m being generous!) but Kelly at 12 with any of those 3 outside would be balanced.

Kelly led the defence that season under SB from 12 and also offered some game management in their ball in hand as a second play maker - IIRR he was kicking in behind and passing really nicely out of the midfield channels. Maybe that was a result of being with Fordy running things at 10.

A midfield 3 of Shillcock, Kata and Kelly is just a dog leg waiting to happen - Shillcokc isn’t good enough defensively and then Kata stays tight and Kelly is isolated or comes narrow too and then gets done on the outside.

That said DKs first up tackling last night was atrocious, not giving DMK much confidence in him at 12.

I guess it would be ironic if Kata being injured when he’s been our best back by some way actually results in the midfield selection being more balanced

[OakhamTiger32]

Centres have become an issue again really.

Kata at 12 is the best back we have, also been signing of the season for me.
BUT leaves 13 as a issue, Kelly pre England call up was playing amazingly at 12. But he isn't a 13 that can handle quick backs against Sarries who have a bit more direct backs he works ok but he really struggles on the outside breaks. Porter is a very good attacking threat but again at 13 he weak on the outside in defence.

The reason we did so well in that prem winning season was because for the first time in years we had two genuinely class 13's in Scott and Moroni, Kelly and Porter thrived with them outside him.

12. Scott, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Moroni
12. Kelly, 13. Scott
12. Porter, 13. Moroni
12. Porter, 13. Scott
12. Scott, 13. Porter
12. Kelly, 13. Porter

Kelly didn't play a single minute at 13.

I feel that Borthwick really did cost us long term not giving Moroni a new contract. I don't believe Falcons outbid I just feel Borthwick looked at stats and thought Moroni cap would be better spent elsewhere.

in defence we look a lot more superior with Scott at 13

12. Kata
13. Perese

Backup Cokanasiga

Happy days

Great carriers, but just seems unbalanced like all 3 the are the same style?
I would still foresee teams getting out wide of us.

For every Kata you need a Scott
For Aki you need a Ringrose or Henshaw
For Nonu you need a Smith
For Kriel you need a DDA
For Ioane you need a Barrett

Yep agreed.. I guess I’m just excited to see them play together but you are right about balance

[sapajo]

Sorry to bore everyone with stats, but I'm curious why no one seems to be saying we kicked too much (although I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread)? Edit: just seen the above post!

Today was the most we've kicked in a Prem game all season.

To illustrate how poor the quality of both teams was today, there were more than twice as many missed tackles as in the Bristol v Saints match, but fewer tries and fewer points.

And 3 times as many kicks.

Very low penalty count, with only 6 each, but that's probably because neither team did much to pressurise the other into giving up penalties.

I believe we have one of the worst attacks in the league and it's been that way for very many seasons. It seems all our ex coaches believe an attack is a nice thing to have but not important that why we still rely so heavily on our maul. The gulf between Gloucester attack and ours was laid bare last night. This must change and now is the time to wake up and address the elephant in the room

[RagingBull]

I agree - i appreciate that what I am about to say doesn’t seem to fit with DMK style (I’m being generous!) but Kelly at 12 with any of those 3 outside would be balanced.

Kelly led the defence that season under SB from 12 and also offered some game management in their ball in hand as a second play maker - IIRR he was kicking in behind and passing really nicely out of the midfield channels. Maybe that was a result of being with Fordy running things at 10.

A midfield 3 of Shillcock, Kata and Kelly is just a dog leg waiting to happen - Shillcokc isn’t good enough defensively and then Kata stays tight and Kelly is isolated or comes narrow too and then gets done on the outside.

That said DKs first up tackling last night was atrocious, not giving DMK much confidence in him at 12.

I guess it would be ironic if Kata being injured when he’s been our best back by some way actually results in the midfield selection being more balanced

I don't know if it's DMK style or not, I feel it's just Kata lack of minutes at 13 that stops him from being played there.

Kelly I don't I would agree with him being a defensive leader, when him and Porter are played at 12 and 13 I feel our backline defnece has looked very unorganised. Certainly Moroni and Scott lead the defence at 13 in that season.

Kelly is a phenomenal passer and carrier though at 12, I feel the England training camp in the summer really messed with Kelly's and Porter's confidence. Both looked like half the player since then.

[Tigers86asw]

As soon as we start saying ‘we need this player, we need that player’ we are in trouble.

The best coaches don’t make excuses like that. They make teams more than the sum of their parts.

At the moment Leicester are less than the sum of their parts and in a competitive league, with no financial advantages available to us the only key point of difference is the culture and coaching at each club.

I fear the coaching at Leicester is severely lacking at the moment.

[sk 88]

As soon as we start saying ‘we need this player, we need that player’ we are in trouble.

The best coaches don’t make excuses like that. They make teams more than the sum of their parts.

At the moment Leicester are less than the sum of their parts and in a competitive league, with no financial advantages available to us the only key point of difference is the culture and coaching at each club.

I fear the coaching at Leicester is severely lacking at the moment.

100% agree.

Obviously the players matter, but we KNOW lots of the ones we have are better than this, so the focus has to be on getting the best out of what we have. Otherwise the joiners will just regress like the current players.

[mightymouse]

Apparently.. sickness bugs are going round the city schools etc so there is the possibility that players with kids have brought it into the camp.
If that is the case I would like the club to give some idea of that .. not as an excuse but maybe as at least a mitigating factor. I would hate to be criticising good players, which would not be my normal position, only to find out later that the poor bloke had spent the past 48 hours on the bog with his head in a bucket

[wardy]

Just putting this out there for comments. Has McKellar lost the dressing room?

[fortysix]

Watching Mc Kellar in warm ups is enlightening. He hardly ever utters a word to nearly all the players. A fly on the wall might tell us whether the players rate him, but my opinion( hopefully wrong) is they dont..