LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[sam16111986]

The senior development squad of rumoured to be 12 is the odd one. Upper age limit of 24 I saw mooted but didn't give a lower age limit. Be a really stupid idea to limit the number of development players a club can carry if the idea is to push England age grade into action more readily.

Perhaps a junior academy for those 21 and under could come into it?

It was thought out by appointed consultants so you know it'll be overly complicated.

[anz3001]

I think many people underestimate how difficult it is to keep the ball for 3 minutes in those circumstances without infringing or making an error.

I'm curious, how early would people advocate "sticking it up the jumper" for when defending a slim lead? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? How early do you abandon the plan and stop trying to play?

I would be shocked if, in 2024, the coaches were not fully aware of the statistics of how long a team is likely to be able to hold onto the ball for in these situations. I'd guess that attempting 3 minutes of up the jumper isn't likely to have a positive outcome, but I may be wrong.

Personally, I think that by focusing on one moment in the match we miss the point a little. There are plenty of other factors that led to us losing the match and to focus on one and blame one person for one action is very, very harsh and completely counter-productive.

I’m pretty certain the data supports the box kick but for me, and us, I don’t think it’s the correct tactic. We have a fantastic defence…..when we have chance to set. We were tired and with 14 men, unstructured play doesn’t suit our strengths.
Personally, I think in these situations we should stick it up the jumper despite being fully aware we may give them a penalty. At least we’d be defending a set piece, which we’re good at. Scramble defence isn’t one of our strong points. The box kick plays in to Bristols strengths.

[kpj tiger]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

[TigerFeetSteve]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

Fair play to McKellar and Wilkes for being there tonight. To face up to the fans... not the easiest evening to face up to them

https://twitter.com/LeicesterTigers/sta ... 7wGcA&s=19

Any forum members there?

[speedski]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

Fair play for being there and for saying. One piece of good news indeed.

[sapajo]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

Fair play to McKellar and Wilkes for being there tonight. To face up to the fans... not the easiest evening to face up to them

https://twitter.com/LeicesterTigers/sta ... 7wGcA&s=19

Any forum members there?

It has been planned for a fair while and I am sure there will be no issues or hostility from attendees

[RagingBull]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

Fair play to McKellar and Wilkes for being there tonight. To face up to the fans... not the easiest evening to face up to them

https://twitter.com/LeicesterTigers/sta ... 7wGcA&s=19

Any forum members there?

They are phones off events I believe.
or meant to be lol

[TigerFeetSteve]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

Fair play to McKellar and Wilkes for being there tonight. To face up to the fans... not the easiest evening to face up to them

https://twitter.com/LeicesterTigers/sta ... 7wGcA&s=19

Any forum members there?

They are phones off events I believe.
or meant to be lol

I know lol, but interested to hear from those there how tough a grilling they got and what sort of answers they got.

[sam16111986]

Apparently Dan has said Kelly will not be leaving for Munster at the access all areas event tonight

Excellent news.

[johnthegriff]

I was there, the answers to questions were honest. Mr McKellar did indeed imply that Kelly was to be with us next season a d that there would be promotions from Senior Academy to Men's squad and possibly another signing.
He spoke about the difficult season and his belief in the system he wants to play when he has the players to suit the system. He was supportive of his players and appreciative of the fans passion and support.
I was glad I went and felt that all who were there shared my feeling. We are promised better things next season but will be going all out to win our remaining Premiership fixtures.

[RagingBull]

AVDF is nominated for Nottingham player of the season
I guess him at LH and if Hoyt can progress in the off season, we are prob ok for props.

Maybe see front row options like
1. Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, AVDF, (Miell, Kingsley-Mellowes)
2. Montoya, Clare, FTT, Vanes, (Smith, Clarke)
3. Cole, Heyes, Hurd, Hoyt, (Mountford, Maka)

[sk 88]

Sorry that Whitley took flack from the fans, he is young but the question is why did he come over to the Crumbie and argue, he should have stayed away over in the middle?

Presumably he came over to thank the fans for attending the game, copped an earful, and responded, as emotions were no doubt high? I don’t believe you’re suggesting that players should stay away from fans after a loss.

In another vein, say Whiteley doesn’t box kick it and we concede a penalty (and turnover) which eventually results in the winning score. How many people would then be advocating for a box kick? Hindsight is 20/20, and arguably Whiteley has become the scapegoat for a series of errors which resulted in the loss.

No one.

Literally no one would have advocated for a box kick.

Perhaps a different player would have got flack instead in your scenario, but no one would have said that it was a mistake not to have kicked away possession with a couple of minutes to go and the momentum with the opposition.

Particularly as the referee had not given a holding on or attacking sealing off penalty the entire game and we were in their half, playing for a line break or a penalty was clearly the better option.

Yes, we had the worst possible outcome from this option and several better outcomes were possible, but THIS is what happened, it's very similar to what happened against Newcastle and against Quins. If we never learn a lesson we'll never get better.

[OakhamTiger32]

Wasn’t Whiteley decent in earlier games ? Seems like he’s copping the flack for a collective effort ?

He's been average to date. His commitment in defence is his main plus point. The choice and execution of the box kick at the end was very poor and unnecessary. He's copping the flack for people's frustrations but it is sort of his own doing.

Sorry that Whitley took flack from the fans, he is young but the question is why did he come over to the Crumbie and argue, he should have stayed away over in the middle?

He isn't that young in rugby terms. He is 28 and has played 3 seasons for Saracens and 2 seasons for Bristol. He has been playing at this level since 2017 so I would expect better judgement. As others have said this is not the first time possession has been kicked away in the closing stages of a game. No, it's not easy if we are camped on our own 5m line to go phase after phase for a few minutes without conceding a penalty but further up the field is a different matter. I expect better game management at this level and if we want to be challenging top 4 these basics need addressing.

All of that being said I do not for one second apportion blame for a defeat to one individual, it's a team effort over 80 minutes. Equally, abuse of any kind directed at players, staff or fans is unacceptable. It's a game. You win some, you lose some, you get the rub of green one day and it goes against you the next. Some days you are the pigeon and some days you are the statue! All I ask for is 100% commitment and effort.. and please try and keep 15 players on the field! It will come together if we work on these basic aspects of our game.

[westwinds31]

AVDF is nominated for Nottingham player of the season
I guess him at LH and if Hoyt can progress in the off season, we are prob ok for props.

Maybe see front row options like
1. Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, AVDF, (Miell, Kingsley-Mellowes)
2. Montoya, Clare, FTT, Vanes, (Smith, Clarke)
3. Cole, Heyes, Hurd, Hoyt, (Mountford, Maka)

Michael Stronge won it I believe - the scrum half ?

[TigerFeetSteve]

AVDF is nominated for Nottingham player of the season
I guess him at LH and if Hoyt can progress in the off season, we are prob ok for props.

Maybe see front row options like
1. Smith, Cronin, Whitcombe, AVDF, (Miell, Kingsley-Mellowes)
2. Montoya, Clare, FTT, Vanes, (Smith, Clarke)
3. Cole, Heyes, Hurd, Hoyt, (Mountford, Maka)

Michael Stronge won it I believe - the scrum half ?

Yes though I think he also covered 10 for them (one of the reasons I think maybe Meredith may end up there is Nottingham were short on Fly Halves this season).

Van Der Flier though on loan even up for that award is a great sign!