LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[RagingBull]

When have we seen anything near a full strength squad turn out this season!
Yes, all teams get injuries etc but when I’m not watching Tigers home and away I watch the other Premiership teams and they manage to get settled squads out.
Borthwick had a season of awful performances before turning things round then the season he left we lost badly at home to Sale then away at Saracens before he left. Wigglesworth then turned us into a decent side before he too of course left.
4 games to go but all are against teams that could easily beat us!
One game at a time so off to Saints just hoping we do compete with their much improved side.
On that matter, this week fans probably read about Sam Vesty’s coaching style as told by Saints’ players. Yes he has great attacking ideas but his ethos is to instil players to be brave enough to play what’s in front of them and to trust each other.
It helps when the backs at Saints have been together a while and largely stay fit: Furbank is back this weekend and Mitchell was back last weekend!

All teams had a World Cup and as you say all teams have injuries. I’m not sure how you prove other teams have more settled teams than us.

Just on this all teams had the world cup BUT
Saracens missing 13
Tigers 11 (Watson making it 12 if fit, + 1 coach)
Gloucester 8
Quins 7
Bristol 7
Sale 5
Bath 5
Saints 5
Falcons 4
Exeter 3

For a completely new head coach it's a steep learning curve for prem rugby introduction missing virtual a whole starting 15 nearly. It's also prob well over a third of the cap all gone.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I am somewhat bored with this argument as we have had it for every coach since Cockers. Coaches know what they are getting into when they sign their contracts they will never ever inherit anything but the status quo. At the end of the day its all about expectation and I believe you can judge a Head Coach at any stage otherwise you may as well just right off the first season of every new head coach.

Pep finished 3rd in his first season at Manchester City, he is now on course to have won the league in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Using some people's ideas or thoughts on here, he would have been gone after the first season.

Head Coaches / DoR's do need time to be able to implement ideas. As others have said, McKellar is probably around the middling mark, he's doing ok I think. If he nails top 4, then i think combined with getting out of the group of death and making a final that is an okish return for his first season given the disruption.

Next season he will be judged more sharply and I don't think that is unfair. I'm more intrigued to see who the new attack coach is going to be. Almost zero rumours at this stage.

I'd be delighted with 3rd this season and shake DM by the hand, however if we finish 8th below 6th............

The difference between 3rd-8th is one win (with a TBP)

What is so vital between 6th and 8th that makes it so bad, it is likely to be one single match result swing because of how tight the league is. Yes it's disappointing but why is so dire?

[RagingBull]

Pep finished 3rd in his first season at Manchester City, he is now on course to have won the league in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Using some people's ideas or thoughts on here, he would have been gone after the first season.

Head Coaches / DoR's do need time to be able to implement ideas. As others have said, McKellar is probably around the middling mark, he's doing ok I think. If he nails top 4, then i think combined with getting out of the group of death and making a final that is an okish return for his first season given the disruption.

Next season he will be judged more sharply and I don't think that is unfair. I'm more intrigued to see who the new attack coach is going to be. Almost zero rumours at this stage.

I'd be delighted with 3rd this season and shake DM by the hand, however if we finish 8th below 6th............

The difference between 3rd-8th is one win (with a TBP)

What is so vital between 6th and 8th that makes it so bad, it is likely to be one single match result swing because of how tight the league is. Yes it's disappointing but why is so dire?

When you look at the table we have the same amount of wins as 2nd place (and only 5 less in points difference) Bonus points have been a big underdoing this season. Been a few matches where we got to 3 tries and just not been ruthless enough to score that 4th

[RagingBull]

Anyway on to rumours Patrick Pellegrini wouldn't be a bad shout for a Pollard back up IMO.

[Rugbygramps]

Anyway on to rumours Patrick Pellegrini wouldn't be a bad shout for a Pollard back up IMO.

TBH not a name I’m that familiar with. A Tongan international playing for Coventry at the moment?

[RunTigerRun]

Anyway on to rumours Patrick Pellegrini wouldn't be a bad shout for a Pollard back up IMO.

Anything in the rumour?

If substantiated then would be a good option. Wouldn’t cost the bank, good basics and potentially looking for a springboard to push for further international honours.

Aged U25 ? So would be a nice complement age between Pollard and Meredith whilst allowing Shillcock to play 15 and cover 10.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Anyway on to rumours Patrick Pellegrini wouldn't be a bad shout for a Pollard back up IMO.

TBH not a name I’m that familiar with. A Tongan international playing for Coventry at the moment?

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 5e92l.html

Scored this screamer in the World Cup vs SA

[RunTigerRun]

Anyway on to rumours Patrick Pellegrini wouldn't be a bad shout for a Pollard back up IMO.

TBH not a name I’m that familiar with. A Tongan international playing for Coventry at the moment?

Relatively unknown, even though he went to the RWC with Tonga. Scored a nice try vs the Boks if I remember rightly?

Seems to be a quiet standout in the Champ but could be worth a punt in a different/prem environment.

[sam16111986]

Anyway on to rumours Patrick Pellegrini wouldn't be a bad shout for a Pollard back up IMO.

Wilkinson is staying it seems, we'll still have Shillcock and Meredith is playing there regularly for Loughborough University in case of an injury crisis.

I've nothing against it as a suggestion but I don't think he covers any other position so there may be greater needs. I believe he's quick with a step, if he could cover wing and fullback as well as 10 I'd be more excited by the potential.

[Tigersunited]

Pep finished 3rd in his first season at Manchester City, he is now on course to have won the league in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Using some people's ideas or thoughts on here, he would have been gone after the first season.

Head Coaches / DoR's do need time to be able to implement ideas. As others have said, McKellar is probably around the middling mark, he's doing ok I think. If he nails top 4, then i think combined with getting out of the group of death and making a final that is an okish return for his first season given the disruption.

Next season he will be judged more sharply and I don't think that is unfair. I'm more intrigued to see who the new attack coach is going to be. Almost zero rumours at this stage.

I'd be delighted with 3rd this season and shake DM by the hand, however if we finish 8th below 6th............

The difference between 3rd-8th is one win (with a TBP)

What is so vital between 6th and 8th that makes it so bad, it is likely to be one single match result swing because of how tight the league is. Yes it's disappointing but why is so dire?

Yes, excellent points, and your opinion. Mine is different, I don’t have confidence at this point, happy to be proved wrong. my opinion is that finishing in the second tier of Europe, with this squad would be dire, especially compared to the fantastic job Wiggy did, retiring, taking his first head coach job and leading us to 3rd.

[Rugbygramps]

Thought top 8 qualified for the champions cup ?

[TigerFeetSteve]

I'd be delighted with 3rd this season and shake DM by the hand, however if we finish 8th below 6th............

The difference between 3rd-8th is one win (with a TBP)

What is so vital between 6th and 8th that makes it so bad, it is likely to be one single match result swing because of how tight the league is. Yes it's disappointing but why is so dire?

Yes, excellent points, and your opinion. Mine is different, I don’t have confidence at this point, happy to be proved wrong. my opinion is that finishing in the second tier of Europe, with this squad would be dire, especially compared to the fantastic job Wiggy did, retiring, taking his first head coach job and leading us to 3rd.

However unless they go for the revamp to the Champions Cup where the prem drops to 5 teams (not heard any whispers of that simce August so highly unlikely to happen for next season) then 8 teams qualify for the Champions Cup. i.e. we stay in the top tier of Europe unless we drop behind Gloucester.

[TigerFeetSteve]

What’s next for Pellegrini? “I’m under contract at Cov for the next season. I do have a clause to get out if other clubs are interested, but for next year I will be here.”

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/patrick- ... -coventry/

Looking at this article yesterday suggests Pellegrini will be at Cov next season as it stands

[Tiglon]

The difference between 3rd-8th is one win (with a TBP)

What is so vital between 6th and 8th that makes it so bad, it is likely to be one single match result swing because of how tight the league is. Yes it's disappointing but why is so dire?

Yes, excellent points, and your opinion. Mine is different, I don’t have confidence at this point, happy to be proved wrong. my opinion is that finishing in the second tier of Europe, with this squad would be dire, especially compared to the fantastic job Wiggy did, retiring, taking his first head coach job and leading us to 3rd.

However unless they go for the revamp to the Champions Cup where the prem drops to 5 teams (not heard any whispers of that simce August so highly unlikely to happen for next season) then 8 teams qualify for the Champions Cup. i.e. we stay in the top tier of Europe unless we drop behind Gloucester.

If people are going to be hyper-critical of others, they should probably make more of an effort to avoid making mistakes of their own. Glass houses and all that...

If McKellar should be sacked after 8 wins in 14, then I assume Lam, Sanderson, Baxter, Matson, McCall and Van Graan should be sacked too?

This idea that Head Coaches should be sacked based on previous results is not the whole picture - they should be assessed on what their future results are likely to be, and previous results is just one part of that. You don't sack a Head Coach to change results that have already happened, you sack him to improve future results.

There is plenty to suggest that next season, without a World Cup and with an attack coach, results will be better.

To be equal second on wins so far, and have the best defence in the league, is not what I would call "dire".

[Scuttle]

Yes, excellent points, and your opinion. Mine is different, I don’t have confidence at this point, happy to be proved wrong. my opinion is that finishing in the second tier of Europe, with this squad would be dire, especially compared to the fantastic job Wiggy did, retiring, taking his first head coach job and leading us to 3rd.

However unless they go for the revamp to the Champions Cup where the prem drops to 5 teams (not heard any whispers of that simce August so highly unlikely to happen for next season) then 8 teams qualify for the Champions Cup. i.e. we stay in the top tier of Europe unless we drop behind Gloucester.

If people are going to be hyper-critical of others, they should probably make more of an effort to avoid making mistakes of their own. Glass houses and all that...

If McKellar should be sacked after 8 wins in 14, then I assume Lam, Sanderson, Baxter, Matson, McCall and Van Graan should be sacked too?

This idea that Head Coaches should be sacked based on previous results is not the whole picture - they should be assessed on what their future results are likely to be, and previous results is just one part of that. You don't sack a Head Coach to change results that have already happened, you sack him to improve future results.

There is plenty to suggest that next season, without a World Cup and with an attack coach, results will be better.

To be equal second on wins so far, and have the best defence in the league, is not what I would call "dire".

What a wonderful summary