LEICESTER TIGERS 2023/24 - KANGAROO MCKELLER: Do you come from a land down under? (Squad thread pt 2)

[Leicestertinytiger]

It is a failure of the system that cannot find game time for players beyond the age of eighteen. Obviously young players need games to continue development and equally obviously they have to be ready to move on to create space for the next year group. Why on earth is it beyond the ability of the RFU or the Premiership.to create an under 23 league, an allowance for a limited number of over age players to participate would help injury returnees to get some game time whilst the young would benefit from p!aying with more experienced p!ayers.
Dual registration with lower league clubs does not always work as the senior clubs occasional usage of the young players just disrupts the other teams selection and unity.

I mean I don’t know about names, something like A league, could do Monday nights perhaps?

[kpj tiger]

Interesting no Tom Manz

Tom must really be impressing in some way to be kept around this long given the circumstances.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Tom Manz kept as the big surprise... suggests he's going into the pot as that lock back up, so probably no signing there.

[OakhamTiger32]

So squads for next season so far
Senior Players:
LH: Cronin, Smith, Whitcombe, (Miell, Van Der Flier)
Hooker: Clare, Montoya, (FTT, Vanes)
Props: Cole, Heyes, Hurd, (Hoyt, Mountford)
Locks: O.Chessum, Henderson, Martin, Wells, (L.Chessum, T.Manz, O.Thomas)
Blindside: Liebenberg, Rogerson (Carnduff, J.Manz)
Openside: Reffell, (Ilione, Beddall, Perkins)
Number 8: Hatherall, Cracknell, Beets, (Williams)
Scrum Half: van Poortvliet, Whiteley, Youngs (Allen)
Fly Half: Pollard, Shillcock, Wilkinson (Daniels)
I Centre: Kata, Kelly, (Woodward, Myall)
O Centre: Perese (Davies)
Winger: Bassett, Hassell-Collins, Simmons, Watson (Kinder, Salata)
Full Back: Brown, Steward (Gourlay)

Woodward, Myall and Davies are a interesting trio Myall and Davies def doing well for the Lions this season from what I hear

In the press release interesting things
Koroyardi and Crane are consider graduates, Meredith and Cusick labelled as " finishing up their time in Tigers’ pathways programme" and Sam Edwards granted early release.
"With squad sizes decreasing and opportunities for game time in a Tigers shirt diminishing over recent years we felt it was right for the lads to continue their rugby careers in new environments."

Thanks RB. Looks pretty thin on the ground in a few places. Hopefully one or 2 names still to arrive:

LH: Cronin, Smith, Whitcombe, (Miell, Van Der Flier)
Hooker: Clare, Montoya, (FTT, Vanes)
Props: Cole, Heyes, Hurd, (Hoyt, Mountford)
Front row looks pretty set with some good starting and back up options. Something like Smith, Montoya, Cole with Cronin, Clare, Heyes on the bench is looking tasty.

Locks: O.Chessum, Henderson, Martin, Wells, (L.Chessum, T.Manz, O.Thomas)
Would have loved to see a big gnarly lock come in but given finances, availability, squad size etc etc. we look in reasonable shape here and Hanro can provide cover if required.

Blindside: Liebenberg, Rogerson (Carnduff, J.Manz)
Martin can also cover if needed

Openside: Reffell, (Ilione, Beddall, Perkins)
Hanro can cover but a little light for the periods Reffell is away

Number 8: Hatherall, Cracknell, Beets, (Williams)
Again it looks like Hanro might be playing here potentially unless we sign a number 8. Beets could be a great potential I just haven't seen enough of him to really comment

Scrum Half: van Poortvliet, Whiteley, Youngs (Allen)
I am sad we kept Whitely over Edwards. He hasn't impressed me to be honest and I feel he has blocked the way of one of the hugely talented 9s we have coming through

Fly Half: Pollard, Shillcock, Wilkinson (Daniels)
I think this is a weak area were Pollard to get injured. Shillcock isn't a 10 and that leaves Wilkinson. He shows potential but I think we are going to be relying on Pollard to stay fit. No quality 10 is going to want to come and warm the bench behind Pollard but I feel we might be a little light in this department unless Shillcock can up his game at 10 which I hope he does

I Centre: Kata, Kelly, (Woodward, Myall)
O Centre: Perese (Davies)
With Kelly able to play 12 or 13, Parese, Kata and Woodward available all season I think we look set here.

Winger: Bassett, Hassell-Collins, Simmons, Watson (Kinder, Salata)
OHC and Watson would be a quality pairing and Simmons has lots of potential. Does he still dabble at 9 or is he solely wing now? Watson's fitness is the key I guess here. If these 2 can find some form we will be in good shape

Full Back: Brown, Steward (Gourlay)
Steward and Brown gives us great options and Shillcock can cover here too. In fact, I would have him down as a 15 rather than a 10

[TigerFeetSteve]

So this is the Senior Academy minus the leavers

Senior Academy

Fifth Season
Tom Manz - extended 23/01/23

Fourth Season
Emeka Ilione - extended 23/01/23
Archie Vanes - extended 23/01/23

Third Season
Lewis Chessum - extended 18/08/22
Tim Hoyt - extended 23/01/23
Seb Smith

Second Season
Finn Carnduff
George Daniels
Josh Manz
Cameron Miell
Joe Woodward - extended 23/01/23

First Season
Ollie Allan
Harry Beddall
Harry Clarke
Charlie Davies
Elliott Gourlay
Jack Kinder
Henry Mountford
Charlie Myall
George Perkins
Malelili Satala
Osian Thomas
Sam Williams
Archie Van Der Flier


Listing FTT as senior squad as that's what he is on the club website (even though he is younger than Vanes, probably to do with being in other Academy's before)

So I'm expecting Tom Manz at least to move to the senior squad, can't really think of any 6th season Academy players before?

[Leicestertinytiger]

A big IF but I could see Chessum moving to 6 to help with carrying in the backrow, something he’s massively improved on, IF Hanro moves to 8.

Might explain why we’re keeping Manz as some more second row cover.

Same with Hatherell, in his last 7 games, 6 have been at lock. Some maybe some shuffling around of forwards.

[TTRITH]

So this is the Senior Academy minus the leavers

Senior Academy

Fifth Season
Tom Manz - extended 23/01/23

Fourth Season
Emeka Ilione - extended 23/01/23
Archie Vanes - extended 23/01/23

Third Season
Lewis Chessum - extended 18/08/22
Tim Hoyt - extended 23/01/23
Seb Smith

Second Season
Finn Carnduff
George Daniels
Josh Manz
Cameron Miell
Joe Woodward - extended 23/01/23

First Season
Ollie Allan
Harry Beddall
Harry Clarke
Charlie Davies
Elliott Gourlay
Jack Kinder
Henry Mountford
Charlie Myall
George Perkins
Malelili Satala
Osian Thomas
Sam Williams
Archie Van Der Flier


Listing FTT as senior squad as that's what he is on the club website (even though he is younger than Vanes, probably to do with being in other Academy's before)

So I'm expecting Tom Manz at least to move to the senior squad, can't really think of any 6th season Academy players before?

I would expect that T. Manz, Illione, Vanes at the very least are promoted, and probably Carnduff, and Woodward given the depth available.

Carnduff, for example, has every change of cementing himself as second choice openside, and a couple of injuries would see Woodward lining up at 12.

Maybe we'll see something like Henderson, Martin; O. Chessum, Reffell, Liebenberg. With a second choice of Hatherall, Wells; Carnduff, Illione, Cracknell. You'd still manage a third choice of L. Chessum, T. Manz; Rogerson, Beddall, Beets.

In yesteryear I think one of Cracknell and Rogerson would be asked to find another club.

Either way, I think youngsters are set for chances.

[CrumbieGrumbler]

Although not close enough to know much about his development, it seems a shame to lose Meredith. We haven't really produced an exciting prospect at 10 since Umaga, who left before we had chance to see him in the senior side

[TigerFeetSteve]

So this is the Senior Academy minus the leavers

Senior Academy

Fifth Season
Tom Manz - extended 23/01/23

Fourth Season
Emeka Ilione - extended 23/01/23
Archie Vanes - extended 23/01/23

Third Season
Lewis Chessum - extended 18/08/22
Tim Hoyt - extended 23/01/23
Seb Smith

Second Season
Finn Carnduff
George Daniels
Josh Manz
Cameron Miell
Joe Woodward - extended 23/01/23

First Season
Ollie Allan
Harry Beddall
Harry Clarke
Charlie Davies
Elliott Gourlay
Jack Kinder
Henry Mountford
Charlie Myall
George Perkins
Malelili Satala
Osian Thomas
Sam Williams
Archie Van Der Flier


Listing FTT as senior squad as that's what he is on the club website (even though he is younger than Vanes, probably to do with being in other Academy's before)

So I'm expecting Tom Manz at least to move to the senior squad, can't really think of any 6th season Academy players before?

I would expect that T. Manz, Illione, Vanes at the very least are promoted, and probably Carnduff, and Woodward given the depth available.

Carnduff, for example, has every change of cementing himself as second choice openside, and a couple of injuries would see Woodward lining up at 12.

Maybe we'll see something like Henderson, Martin; O. Chessum, Reffell, Liebenberg. With a second choice of Hatherall, Wells; Carnduff, Illione, Cracknell. You'd still manage a third choice of L. Chessum, T. Manz; Rogerson, Beddall, Beets.

In yesteryear I think one of Cracknell and Rogerson would be asked to find another club.

Either way, I think youngsters are set for chances.

Because there is a seperate cap for Senior Academy guys than the main squad, the club want to keep as many as possible in the Senior Academy cap to allow more cap to be spent elsewhere, being in the Senior Academy does not restrict appearances in the senior team, so I suspect Carnduff and Woodward at least will remain in the Senior Academy, unless their wages dictate otherwise (Senior Academy players have a cap on max salary). Steward and Van Poortvliet for example were regular starters whilst still in the Senior Academy.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Although not close enough to know much about his development, it seems a shame to lose Meredith. We haven't really produced an exciting prospect at 10 since Umaga, who left before we had chance to see him in the senior side

I'd say Costelow falls into the exciting prospect category, but once again we didn't get to see that

[CrumbieGrumbler]

Although not close enough to know much about his development, it seems a shame to lose Meredith. We haven't really produced an exciting prospect at 10 since Umaga, who left before we had chance to see him in the senior side

I'd say Costelow falls into the exciting prospect category, but once again we didn't get to see that

Very true! He had slipped my mind

[fentiger]

Best guess when our new attack coach will join us? Ordinarily would be July but I wonder if it could be sooner?

[RagingBull]

Senior academy is 18-24 and under 50K a year.
Tom Manz is still only 22 this season so technically could have another 2 years in the dev squad

Best guess when our new attack coach will join us? Ordinarily would be July but I wonder if it could be sooner?

Prob in the off season, as he's still got his current job.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Senior academy is 18-24 and under 50K a year.
Tom Manz is still only 22 this season so technically could have another 2 years in the dev squad

Best guess when our new attack coach will join us? Ordinarily would be July but I wonder if it could be sooner?

Prob in the off season, as he's still got his current job.

Think the last regular season match is 5th May.

However it looks likely that the team he coaches is in the promotion/relegation playoffs. Those finish 25th May, so unlikely to be here before June.

[Leicestertinytiger]

You have to hope that the new attack coach will fix many of the issues we’ve had this season. We’ve had one of the best defences this season, along with a good scrum and lineout.

But we’re in bottom two of attacks this season with the least line breaks - even Gloucester have a better attack than us. Let’s just assume we bring in no more players next season.

1. Smith 2. Montoya 3. Heyes 4. Martin 5. Henderson 6. Chessum 7. Reffell 8. Liebenberg 9. JVP 10. Pollard 11. OHC 12. Kelly 13. Perese 14. Watson / Simmons 15. Steward

That’s a very good 15. Even without Wiese we’ve still got carrying options in Montoya, Martin, Chessum, Liebenberg. Then in the backs OHC, Simmons, Watson will all do well if given space ball in hand. I hope the new coach gets them playing with some confidence because I think the ability is there.