International Eligibility

[loretta]

Personally, I'd go with country of birth only. There are current players who'd miss out, I know, but that just makes room for others. I like the passport idea though.

[mol2]

Country of birth is not ideal for exclusive selection.
Historically the children of forces personnel could be born all o er the world but have no long term connection to that country.

My dad worked for a UN organisation and by that fact I could have been born in India Thailand, The Netherlands or Italy, but by chance it was a 1 year contract that saw me born in Wales. But I have no other connection to Wales. Grew up in Leicestershire where my mother's family came from.. yet I could have played for Wales, England or Norway. Being too slow, lacking talent or size precluded Mt selection.

It just illustrates how rugby nationality could be acquired.

For me grandparents should not count. Nationality by birth or 5 years residency only.

[Not a jock]

I've often said that Princess Anne is the ideal president for the SRU as she has/had one Scottish grandparent.

[Robespierre]

For me grandparents should not count. Nationality by birth or 5 years residency only.

Yes, nationality by birth or at least 15 years' residency to ensure that the players are 100% immersed in the country's culture:

As for me, I was born in England, my dad and his parents were born in Wales, my mother's father was Scottish and I've been living in France for just over 24 years but I've yet to receive a phone call from anyone (preferably from Fabien Galthié )

[GB72]

For me grandparents should not count. Nationality by birth or 5 years residency only.

Yes, nationality by birth or at least 15 years' residency to ensure that the players are 100% immersed in the country's culture:

As for me, I was born in England, my dad and his parents were born in Wales, my mother's father was Scottish and I've been living in France for just over 24 years but I've yet to receive a phone call from anyone (preferably from Fabien Galthié )

I would agree with that. Passport is not enough as some countries allow you to buy citizenship. Nationality by birth of 15 years seems reasonable though, given the choice, i would go just nationality by birth.

[GB72]

I would also add, and I know I am extreme in this one, but the head coach, and potentially the coaching set up, should be nationally qualified as well. If it is a true competition between the two rugby nations, the set up should fully reflect that.

[Robespierre]

I would also add, and I know I am extreme in this one, but the head coach, and potentially the coaching set up, should be nationally qualified as well. If it is a true competition between the two rugby nations, the set up should fully reflect that.

+1

[Tiglon]

I would also add, and I know I am extreme in this one, but the head coach, and potentially the coaching set up, should be nationally qualified as well. If it is a true competition between the two rugby nations, the set up should fully reflect that.

+1

I agree with that for tier 1, but it's got to be good for rugby to have tier 1 head coaches working with tier 2 nations.

You could even have stricter eligibility rules depending on tier 1/2 or ranking. Might get messy though...

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

If you qualify by residency you should remain a resident otherwise you become ineligible.

[tjs10inOz]

A player could technically be entitled to represent 4 nations if the Grandparents rule continues.

Technically based on it you can represent 7 countries based on just grandparents.
Say
Grandparent A born in England
Grandparent B born in South Africa
Grandparent C born in New Zealand
Grandparent D born in Australia

Parent AB born in Scotland
Parent CD born in Wales

Player ABCD born in Ireland

Seven nationalities based on birth alone, ok it's unlikely to get such a multicultural person but theoretically possible especially in a world of much easier international travel

I could be wrong, but I believe that if you are born in the Channel Islands, you're technically eligible for any one of the 4 home unions. I recall Budge Pountney being eligible for Scotland through a grandmother born in Guernsey.

Therefore, you could have the following unlikely, but technically possible scenario:

Grandparent A born in Channel Islands (eligible for England, Wales, Scotland or Ireland)
Grandparent B born in South Africa
Grandparent C born in New Zealand
Grandparent D born in Australia

Parent AB born in France
Parent CD born in Italy

Player ABCD born in Samoa

So 10 countries via "birth" alone! There are also probably some other quirks of multiple eligibility (similar to Channel Islands) which could make it even more ludicrous.
I'm pretty sure that Aaron Mauger was classed as "French" while he was at Tigers under the Kolpak ruling, due to a French-Polynesian grandmother!

[Pellsey]

For me grandparents should not count. Nationality by birth or 5 years residency only.

Yes, nationality by birth or at least 15 years' residency to ensure that the players are 100% immersed in the country's culture:

As for me, I was born in England, my dad and his parents were born in Wales, my mother's father was Scottish and I've been living in France for just over 24 years but I've yet to receive a phone call from anyone (preferably from Fabien Galthié )

I would agree with that. Passport is not enough as some countries allow you to buy citizenship. Nationality by birth of 15 years seems reasonable though, given the choice, i would go just nationality by birth.

On reflection, I completely agree with you! Passport is actually a silly idea - I just thought of "American - Irish" people who have never been to Ireland but one of their great.... grandparents boarded a ship 140 years ago..

I think maybe residency of at least 10 years (I think 15 years is a little excessive) should be the case. Not sure about birth. I mean, you could be on holiday and give birth there, then go home. I was born in England but have lived away for nearly 30 years, and I have nothing do to with England anymore nor have a clue about the country (apart from Tigers!) I would certainly not pass a citizenship test and I barely speak the language any more!

[mol2]

I would have thought that the Kolpak agreement should have ended with Brexit.

Otherwise, to get a work permit players would have to demonstrate being of international standard to qualify.

For me there are too many good but not outstanding Kolpak players in the league. Are average players raising the standard of England rugby? Much the same might be said of County cricket.

[sk 88]

I would have thought that the Kolpak agreement should have ended with Brexit.

Otherwise, to get a work permit players would have to demonstrate being of international standard to qualify.

For me there are too many good but not outstanding Kolpak players in the league. Are average players raising the standard of England rugby? Much the same might be said of County cricket.

So firstly, by definition an average player must be raising the standard, because otherwise there would be a below-average player, and even then as they'd be replacing an even worse player they'd still be raising the average overall.

I do question club's ability to assess players, not their motives on signing foreigners. They always genuinely think they are better than what they could otherwise get. Which limiting their talent pool wouldn't really change, given the vast other protections Rugby & cricket clubs get from making mistakes.

On your first point, I think you are correct going forward but I believe it was agreed that anyone who was a "kolpak" exception would remain one until/unless an entirely new framework was agreed. That was rumoured to be part of the the new PGP but seems to have gone quite so might have been kicked into the long grass marked "too difficult".

[trendylfj]

For me, the passport idea is a total non-starter - there is not a separate passport for Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales and I am sure that the Northern Irish lads would still want to play for the united Irish team rather than become a tier 2 or 3 nation. Neither is the grandparent thing - get rid of it. Parent's qualification, place of birth and residency (I would be happy with a minimum of 6 years) should be the only qualification for me.

[northerntiger]

For me, the passport idea is a total non-starter - there is not a separate passport for Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales and I am sure that the Northern Irish lads would still want to play for the united Irish team rather than become a tier 2 or 3 nation. Neither is the grandparent thing - get rid of it. Parent's qualification, place of birth and residency (I would be happy with a minimum of 6 years) should be the only qualification for me.
[/quote

Agree with this.
Also, I thought you could only move from tier 1 to tier 2? Has that changed?