Trailfinders a sad indictment of rugby

[BengalTiger]

The commentary team highlighted the fact that though EalingTrailfinders have a small ground, they did not sell it out for their biggest game of the season, what a sad indictment of Rugby!
That one rich person can draw together such a talented team with the sole resource of money makes me question the values of rugby, with no fans and a poor pitch what must the players feel like? Prostituting themselves and their skills in such a vainglorious enterprise in front of one rich man and his dog.
Rich people die like the rest of us, without a solid fan base any team like Ealing will fade away as soon as the money tap is turned off, see Worcester, Wasps, Jersey Reds and LI .
I despair of the state of rugby in the UK, the same old farts are running the club game into the ground, there is no strategic vision, no eye to where club rugby will be in 5-10 years time as long as the Arms Park, Murrayfield and Twickers are full and selling lots of beer 12 days a year everything is tickety-boo old chap.

[tigerburnie]

You are looking down from your ivory tower, those involved with the grass roots of the game admire what the Championship clubs are striving to do with no help from the people charged with growing the game. Clubs in the National leagues play the game for the love of it, no trophies to win, just a love of the game. I think you need to find your local rugby club and immerse yourself in the game that is real. Then when you go to Welford Road, you will perhaps view the game quite differently.

[Rugbygramps]

I think you make a fair point. Ealing are held up as the beacons of hope to break the premiership club monopoly and yet after today you have to question that just how ready, or possibly willing they are.
Today was the biggest game in their recent history, the chance of a huge premiership scalp as well as reaching the PREMIERSHIP rugby cup final.
For such a game they were able to attract 2700 spectators, including a healthy amount of away support, this would point to either lack of interest or poor marketing.
Their pitch is dreadful, it has been down for a number of years and is a compacted 3G surface. The surface at Leicester Forest is vastly superior.
Playing wise they did well, but in perspective their opponents only had 4 first choice players out, and had not played for a month.

I think it is wrong to suggest people are in Ivory Towers when it is clear that even the strongest of the championship sides is no where near ready to play in the premiership both on and off the field.
It is very easy to point fingers at the RFU when there could be a lot more being done locally.

All imo of course

[Tiglon]

I agree with the general premise that it's sad to see such a good group of players generating such small crowds.

However, people living the dream of playing professional sport are "prostituting" themselves? How disrespectful.

Every single Premiership club would have gone bust by now if "the money tap" had been turned off, including Tigers. We're not so different, we've just been around at the top of the game longer.

I see no reason to look down our noses at the likes of Ealing, and without them and their wealthy owner there'd be a few dozen more unemployed rugby players.

We worry that no one wants to invest in rugby, then we make fun of someone who does because he hasn't turned a tiny club into Leicester Tigers within 10 years?

[tigerburnie]

I think you make a fair point. Ealing are held up as the beacons of hope to break the premiership club monopoly and yet after today you have to question that just how ready, or possibly willing they are.
Today was the biggest game in their recent history, the chance of a huge premiership scalp as well as reaching the PREMIERSHIP rugby cup final.
For such a game they were able to attract 2700 spectators, including a healthy amount of away support, this would point to either lack of interest or poor marketing.
Their pitch is dreadful, it has been down for a number of years and is a compacted 3G surface. The surface at Leicester Forest is vastly superior.
Playing wise they did well, but in perspective their opponents only had 4 first choice players out, and had not played for a month.

I think it is wrong to suggest people are in Ivory Towers when it is clear that even the strongest of the championship sides is no where near ready to play in the premiership both on and off the field.
It is very easy to point fingers at the RFU when there could be a lot more being done locally.

All imo of course

This is an example of how little is understood about the game outside of the Premiership, those who only watch the professional game know so little of what rugby is all about, the minis and juniors at the local clubs all over the land that form the international players of the future, the clubs that start the journey that creates the game. Yes the desire to be like those internationals are kindled in clubs like the Tigers, in 2003 little kids wanted to be Johnny Wilkinson, but their journey takes in clubs like Ealing, without them, there is no professional game, no Tigers.

[Old Hob]

From what I could see on TV it looked a splendid small ground.
As was pointed out on commentary, since the demise of LI and the move by Saracens there is no Prem rugby in the area. BUT, as London Welsh found out, there was no prem rugby in the Oxford area but the support did not materialise despite the demographic.
I have no idea what the answer is although, I must confess, I was v surprised that they couldn't sell 5,000 tickets given that our travelling support is generally strong. Perhaps it was the nature of the game itself - televised, on a Sunday, not expected to win against the mightiest team in England (cough, cough).
Is there a chicken and egg problem? If they were promoted would the crowds swell? I don't know, but the powers that be should invest in some decent, independent research to find out what would make a difference - and then act on it.

[Rugbygramps]

I think you make a fair point. Ealing are held up as the beacons of hope to break the premiership club monopoly and yet after today you have to question that just how ready, or possibly willing they are.
Today was the biggest game in their recent history, the chance of a huge premiership scalp as well as reaching the PREMIERSHIP rugby cup final.
For such a game they were able to attract 2700 spectators, including a healthy amount of away support, this would point to either lack of interest or poor marketing.
Their pitch is dreadful, it has been down for a number of years and is a compacted 3G surface. The surface at Leicester Forest is vastly superior.
Playing wise they did well, but in perspective their opponents only had 4 first choice players out, and had not played for a month.

I think it is wrong to suggest people are in Ivory Towers when it is clear that even the strongest of the championship sides is no where near ready to play in the premiership both on and off the field.
It is very easy to point fingers at the RFU when there could be a lot more being done locally.

All imo of course

This is an example of how little is understood about the game outside of the Premiership, those who only watch the professional game know so little of what rugby is all about, the minis and juniors at the local clubs all over the land that form the international players of the future, the clubs that start the journey that creates the game. Yes the desire to be like those internationals are kindled in clubs like the Tigers, in 2003 little kids wanted to be Johnny Wilkinson, but their journey takes in clubs like Ealing, without them, there is no professional game, no Tigers.

First of all know who you are responding to. As a former mini and junior chairman and and a junior coach of 12 years I take great exception to your accusation.
Secondly there seem to be 2 different points being made here. I don’t doubt your argument but that has nothing to do with whether Ealing are ready to make the next step. If they are happy with how things are then all power to them but let’s stop them talking about expanding the premiership

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

I think we’re definitely talking about two different things. Nobody seems to be doubting the importance of ‘grassroots’ rugby and the many benefits and values it brings to individuals and communities. Of course many of those taking part aspire to reaching the top levels, many just enjoy playing and being involved in the great game with their mates.

The issue for me is that for those who aspire to develop themselves and their clubs there may not be much left to aspire too in a few years time. As the OP pointed out the focus of those in power in the sport in England seems to stop at International and Premiership level.

The rot started a good few years ago with little rugby played in schools and the demise of many, many junior clubs before the headline failures of Premiership Clubs. I share the concerns that many have for the game, I played in the days when local clubs (and there was a lot more of them then) put out 4 teams, Vets, Colts and all had thriving mini rugby sections. The debate shouldn’t be about where ‘real’ rugby is played but are we going to be playing any rugby in 10 years time?

As for the ‘who knows most about rugby’ discussion I would suggest that the majority of season ticket holders and more besides who go to watch Premiership Rugby are ex players, coaches or have been involved in the game over the years, have contributed to it and are not sitting on the outside looking in. This adds to the concern for the future as the numbers entering at the bottom diminish so will those spectating at the top.

[Bartonblue]

I do feel a certain amount of sympathy towards Ealing. Yes, it was their biggest game, and no they didn't sell out, but what it did allow them to do, was showcase themselves via a much bigger media outlet, than perhaps they have ever been able to do before. I was there, so i can confirm that it was a very well set out, tidy club. (Volunteers were walking around with bin bags during the game to keep on top of any rubbish build up). The bars needed extra personnel, (the WRMW bar moaners would be having palpitations at just 2 people serving in the 2 bars!!), but we were made to feel welcome in the same way that Bedford made us feel welcome at the start of the season.
"If you build it, then they will come", is often quoted as to why you should try something. My response would be, yes they will, but they will have to come from outside the local area as I believe that they have probably converted as many locals as they are going to given the area that it's located in, and also from the Juniors up. I've heard some people suggest that perhaps London Irish fans might transfer their allegiance and start to attend a few matches, but if say it was Tigers who had gone pop and not Wasps, would we have flocked en masse to Coventry to get our Rugby fix? It was brilliant to see family groups on the "2nd's" pitch with rugs out for the little ones whilst dad stood watching the game with the older children. This is what grass roots is all about for me. Family groups attending and turning it into a social occasion amongst friends.
This is the crux though. Are they trying to run before they can walk? On the pitch, you can see that they are rapidly moving towards premiership standard and naturally there are calls for them to be considered for promotion. I'm not convinced that they have enough infrastructure off the field in place to be able to sustain that ambition. If they were to be promoted, then they will naturally get decent away support from the likes of Quinns and Sarries. We would travel well, but after that other than the first season novelty of a "new ground" to visit, we know ourselves that rugby fans don't travel. So for the first few seasons the club would have to be massively subsidised to pay it's way. In my opinion (head above the parapet time), i'd argue that they should spend another season in the Championship, boost their marketing dept. Try and make some noise in the London Football dominated media, continue to build the winning team, (people want to be attached to a winning team), and then see where their at.
I hope that they succeed, any growth in this game is to be welcomed, and I hope that we draw them again next year, as i thoroughly enjoyed the day and would be quite happy to go again.
Ps
Just to be controversial, but those who point out that they only got 2,700 people through the gates, but watched it on the TV. What would they have to do to get you to go down next time? Perhaps if they address those points, then thy might start to increase their gates.

[tigerburnie]

Imagine being in a rugby club that reaches a glass ceiling and know they cannot break through into a ring fenced league that let's their mates back in(Saracens) then promptly closes the door and bolts it. Is there a point in promoting yourselves or spending money developing a ground to a fictitious standard knowing you will never be allowed to join the group. There is the small matter that Ealing applied to the local council to develop their ground and were refused permission.
So to join the two different things together, grass roots rugby is doing it's best to survive but as you try to take the next step up, you encounter closed doors and not a little bigotry, there is no thought of developing the game and bringing in a wider audience, just protectionism. To quote one of my favourite songs from one of my favourite bands, "Money, is the root of all evil so they say, well I'm all right Jack, keep your hands off my stack"

[Rugbygramps]

Why is it people feel the need to bring Saracens into every argument it beggars belief, move on.

As for the point about attendance rather than the small number that maybe could have traveled where was the proof that they had sold the game to the local community, inviting local clubs and their m and j sections. There wasn’t a lot of competition yesterday afternoon at 3 from other live rugby.
Very easy to make excuses not so easy to provide the solutions.

Ealing would make an excellent semi pro feeder club for a London franchise or regional club

[johnthegriff]

Ealing apparently are backed by money but not many fans, they have come from humble origins and been regularly promoted which would normally stimulate growth in support but now they have reached an impasse where they cannot be promoted so cup matches apart their games are little more than friendlies. There has to be a review of ground criteria for promotion but only a small.modification plus plans in place for continuing improvements should the promoted team remain in the Premiership. Harlequins are just down the road from Ealing and since professionalism they have increased attendance massively. London Irish at Brentford, very close to Ealing were building support before their demise.
Including Championship clubs in the Premier Cup will I believe help some smaller clubs to grow or at least assess their potential, those of us who have been watching the game for some time have seen incredible improvements in the various grounds we visit and not all the teams in the Premiership were as well blessed in their premises as ourselves, Saints and Gloucester when professional rugby came into being.

[Tigerbeat]

Why is it people feel the need to bring Saracens into every argument it beggars belief, move on.

As for the point about attendance rather than the small number that maybe could have traveled where was the proof that they had sold the game to the local community, inviting local clubs and their m and j sections. There wasn’t a lot of competition yesterday afternoon at 3 from other live rugby.
Very easy to make excuses not so easy to provide the solutions.

Ealing would make an excellent semi pro feeder club for a London franchise or regional club

Clubs that have been relegated from the Premiership in seasons gone (Saints, Quins, Newcastle, Saracens) have retained their shares and have bounced back the following season, in most cases walking back from the Championship. These teams have had the operating infrastructure in place to meet the Premiership requirements and have been promoted back.
Exeter are the only club that has come up from the Championship (as far as I recall) and have gone on to greater things (PRC Cup, Premiership Winners, European Champions) but have had the backing and the infrastructure.
There is a massive gulf between the Premiership and Championship sides on both a playing and operational scale.
Attendances are badly needed to support the day to day running of the club, players wages etc or have owners / sponsors who ae willing to support a Club, losing money out of their own pockets.
Sadly, rugby does not have the same level of support as Football in terms of supporters or revenue. Would not be surprised to see another club disappear within the next couple of seasons..........rugby is in trouble

[MelChannerFan]

What did Exeter do right? They got right to the top of Europe from that level.
Perhaps Ealing had no history?

[tigerburnie]

It would seem that Exeter are not making enough money either, they like us had to raise extra cash selling their hotel or part of the shares in it, money is tight, fans are taking decisions as to what they can and can't afford as businesses are still struggling, rugby clubs are not immune from the country being in recession.