Salary Caps

[longlivethecrumbie]

We've seen recently that Tigers are going to, reluctantly, spend up to the increased cap next season. It's become increasingly obvious that it's a struggle for rugby clubs in England to stay anything like afloat.

This got me thinking about both sides.in the URC and also, more specifically, in France and where the money comes from that keeps the big clubs with their huge, well paid, squads afloat? I know that most of the clubs are likely privately owned but is their a significant amount of cash coming in from TV deals, for.example, or from the central union?

[Flash]

Just a vague recollection but I think France have good TV deals and it's collective between the top 2 divisions. Having two well funded strong divisions seems to help.

Based on nothing concrete I assume there's less of a gulf between football viewership and rugby over there given the comparative levels of our leagues and theirs. All the Premier league teams spend huge sums but it's only the wealthy back french teams that can do this.

In France there also seems to have been an improvement when leagues and union started pulling in the same direction. Both French clubs and national teams have gone from strength to strength since.

We need joined up thinking over here before we'll see an increase in TV revenue because no one seems to fully look at the bigger picture.

[Rugbygramps]

Just a vague recollection but I think France have good TV deals and it's collective between the top 2 divisions. Having two well funded strong divisions seems to help.

Based on nothing concrete I assume there's less of a gulf between football viewership and rugby over there given the comparative levels of our leagues and theirs. All the Premier league teams spend huge sums but it's only the wealthy back french teams that can do this.

In France there also seems to have been an improvement when leagues and union started pulling in the same direction. Both French clubs and national teams have gone from strength to strength since.

We need joined up thinking over here before we'll see an increase in TV revenue because no one seems to fully look at the bigger picture.

I think this is right. Another thing is that quite a few of the stadiums particularly in Div. 2 are municipal helping with the funding or so I believe

[Tiglon]

I believe quite a few of the big Fench clubs have very wealthy owners too.whether they are self-sufficient or run at a loss, I do not know.

[ay2oh]

The french TV deal was worth 3 or 4 times the money of the BT/TNT one.

[mol2]

The RFU seem that they are stuck in the amateur era and have failed to grasp that they need a symbiotic relationship with the professional teams, again I would say the pro teams haven’t exactly strived to achieve this either.

The poor England coaching appointments in the post Woodward era haven’t help. The league needs England to be successful to draw more into following the game.

Add to that a failure of the RFU to insist on doing their own TV coverage deal for all England games, including the 6N like France do. Backing down when the other home nation squealed and threatened to kick them out of the 6N. This effectively left England subsidising the other home nations, money that could have been used to support a competitive second tier? That was an amateur decision in a professional era.

Sarries cheating the salary cap must have harmed other clubs. Lost success for other teams and putting off sponsors who would find being associated with cheating unpalatable.

The amount of money TV spends on soccer leaves little to spread further.

[Hot_Charlie]

Sarries cheating the salary cap must have harmed other clubs. Lost success for other teams and putting off sponsors who would find being associated with cheating unpalatable.

100%

Although it was interesting that a headline sponsor appeared to object to their conduct on moral grounds.

[GB72]

Sarries cheating the salary cap must have harmed other clubs. Lost success for other teams and putting off sponsors who would find being associated with cheating unpalatable.

100%

Although it was interesting that a headline sponsor appeared to object to their conduct on moral grounds.

I think that the biggest harm was in the potential to over inflate the wage market and all clubs are still paying for that. Sadly, France has picked up that baton and run with it, though totally legally. Now they can pay the big wages, every decent player is going to look at that and, unless there is something like international payments keeping them here then they are going to be sorely tempted to move. Unless you are nailed on to be in the England squad, the French money is gong to be a massive draw now as is the relative stability.

On an earlier point, someone posted and interview on here a few months ago discussing the French TV deal. Football became too expensive and without the massive appeal of our Premiership to contend with, the TV company threw its eggs in the rugby basket and has made it a massive success. We, on the other hand, will be fighting to get anything near the last deal we had and rumours are that even that is not likely as we have lost teams and the viewing figures are apparently not great.

Thing is, who takes it if TNT are not that interested, not sure Sky would see the draw like they used to and are committed to football. Channel 4, could they afford it and to they want to schedule rugby week in week out, Amazon, maybe on Prime as it has been before, It is all a bit uncertain.

[Old Hob]

I think we may have an implosion and a major reset. I have no idea how it would work, how other countries would react or whether there would even be a professional re-start. I suspect England, Australia, Scotland and Wales would like to go back to the '90s and start again; pinning wage rates to something manageable and writing sensible protocols between clubs and country.

[Lutontiger]

Am not sure, but think the crowds supporting French rugby are a lot bigger than ours - maybe having municipal-owned grounds helps with ticket prices too?

[GB72]

I think we may have an implosion and a major reset. I have no idea how it would work, how other countries would react or whether there would even be a professional re-start. I suspect England, Australia, Scotland and Wales would like to go back to the '90s and start again; pinning wage rates to something manageable and writing sensible protocols between clubs and country.

Totally agree. On the TV side of things, I think that there was a degree of naivety, expecting a sport that at club level was traditionally the odd game on Grandstand and a Sunday highlights show to become something that numbers would watch weekly.

You then had the meteoric rise of the Premier League football absorbing all of the TV and Ad revenue and you were on a hiding to nothing.

I really do not know how we go from here. What are we, one club collapse away from the league ceasing to be viable if no new entrants can be found. How do you come back from that. Can you come back from that.

Welford Road could be our downfall as much as it has been out blessing. Could you run the ground in a re-formed status with no TV money. I just am very nervous about the future of the professional game.

[Tiglon]

As someone else pointed out, France does not have a football league that is quite so all-encmpassing as our own. That surely hinders rugby's monetary potential in England.

I can see rugby limping on for many years to come, much in the same way as it has since the birth of professionalism. They'll keep tinkering with the laws and the format of various competitions, and reshuffling the calendar, alongside some not-particularly-groundbreaking marketing initiatives, as if any of that will make any difference.

Sometimes a thing just isn't as popular as you wish it was and there's nothing you can do to change that. I suspect rugby is one of those things. I'm OK with that.

[GB72]

As someone else pointed out, France does not have a football league that is quite so all-encmpassing as our own. That surely hinders rugby's monetary potential in England.

I can see rugby limping on for many years to come, much in the same way as it has since the birth of professionalism. They'll keep tinkering with the laws and the format of various competitions, and reshuffling the calendar, alongside some not-particularly-groundbreaking marketing initiatives, as if any of that will make any difference.

Sometimes a thing just isn't as popular as you wish it was and there's nothing you can do to change that. I suspect rugby is one of those things. I'm OK with that.

As am I but to maintain itself as a professional sport at anywhere near the levels it currently is, it needs a TV revenue and at least 10 clubs in the league. My concern is that we may fail on one or both of those fronts.

[Tiglon]

As someone else pointed out, France does not have a football league that is quite so all-encmpassing as our own. That surely hinders rugby's monetary potential in England.

I can see rugby limping on for many years to come, much in the same way as it has since the birth of professionalism. They'll keep tinkering with the laws and the format of various competitions, and reshuffling the calendar, alongside some not-particularly-groundbreaking marketing initiatives, as if any of that will make any difference.

Sometimes a thing just isn't as popular as you wish it was and there's nothing you can do to change that. I suspect rugby is one of those things. I'm OK with that.

As am I but to maintain itself as a professional sport at anywhere near the levels it currently is, it needs a TV revenue and at least 10 clubs in the league. My concern is that we may fail on one or both of those fronts.

It just needs to spend less on player wages. Simple, right?

[GB72]

As someone else pointed out, France does not have a football league that is quite so all-encmpassing as our own. That surely hinders rugby's monetary potential in England.

I can see rugby limping on for many years to come, much in the same way as it has since the birth of professionalism. They'll keep tinkering with the laws and the format of various competitions, and reshuffling the calendar, alongside some not-particularly-groundbreaking marketing initiatives, as if any of that will make any difference.

Sometimes a thing just isn't as popular as you wish it was and there's nothing you can do to change that. I suspect rugby is one of those things. I'm OK with that.

As am I but to maintain itself as a professional sport at anywhere near the levels it currently is, it needs a TV revenue and at least 10 clubs in the league. My concern is that we may fail on one or both of those fronts.

It just needs to spend less on player wages. Simple, right?

Possible but if that then sees and exodus of big players going abroad or a drop in standards or a drop in competitiveness between those willing to spend and those not, it then impacts crowds and sponsor revenue and that causes issues.

Newcastle are showing what happens to clubs who spend what they can afford.