Tigers v Saints (H) - Premiership - Saturday 18th November 2023 - KO: 15:05

[Ian Cant]

Pollard has hardly played in 2023 so for me he plays. Next two games are massive as it’s a chance to get back on track.
Bassett plays too as I thought after Pollard he was our best back yesterday.
Kata is good but he’s a bit like Manu: defence needs a lot of work!

[Rugbygramps]

Manu v Kata comparison is an excellent one, these south sea islanders love a big hit.
Kelly was being touted as a potential England player. He still has the ability he just needs a run with someone like Scott to help his confidence

[DeadlyDunc]

Wasn’t it 18 months ago Porter and Kelly as centres were tearing up trees for Borthwick and coming out on top in some big games domestically & in Europe?

Kelly was rushed back and hasn’t been the same since and Porter had a stop start year too.

Give them time, a bit of luck with injuries within a clear structure and game plan and they’ll be fine and get back to the level seen before.

[LE18]

I've been asking fot this for years! Just watch it like you were there......but with sir's voice. No commentary. No pundits.

Ironic, isn't it, that pundit means wise man?

its having 2 analysts with the lead, they both need to add their POV so its almost constant, it doesn't overly bother me though

Me and the old man used to watch games on telly together because he was too frail to go to WR.. We had each other for conversation. We didn't want the jabber of the wise men. We were wise enough!

Wise as newts on occasions. I miss those times. The current wittering I find intolerable. The Quins v Sarries game was even worse.

Benaud once said if ypu can add something to a scene then say something if not wind your neck in.

I agree completely, I want to hear what is being said on pitch, not talked over. I also want cameras to stay 100% looking at game on the pitch, I dont want close ups of someones nostrils, least of all the crowd and the bench, show me everything going on on the pitch. And no on pitch interviews during game.

[LE18]

The general consensus is it takes longer to recover after a game on the "carpet", it will be interesting in a few years to see how players who have played more on it, fair later in life.

Sarries pitch is probably considered the worst, so how many Sarries players are off injured due to their pitch?

[DeadlyDunc]

The general consensus is it takes longer to recover after a game on the "carpet", it will be interesting in a few years to see how players who have played more on it, fair later in life.

Sarries pitch is probably considered the worst, so how many Sarries players are off injured due to their pitch?

Shhh - don’t use logic please

As I said before, the perception is different to the reality - any injury on artificial is a direct result of the surface but that’s not the case on natural even if it’s a muddy quagmire.

I prefer natural and would like it to be fibresand (like almost all top end stadia) type throughout but it’s cost prohibitive and some rugby fans don’t like it as it’s too firm.

There is no good or bad surface - you can have a good artificial or a bad natural. Injuries occur on all and there is no evidence outside of anecdotal, that there is a greater risk or a longer recovery time

[kk20gb30]

'fraid artificial surfaces are part and parcel of the game now ... Progress ?
Guess like everything else balance has to be struck and obvious risk to particular players has to be taken into account.
Re. the Centre pairing , for me, a place has to be found for Matt Scott - clever player and still a classy operator.
Does the right things at the right times over and over ...

Biggest concern as a whole though remains our defence.

I thought our defence was a big step up yesterday and there were a lot more positive collisions which helped with a number of Reffells turnovers.
A team like Saints is always going to score end to end tries it’s the way they play. The trade off is their set piece and turnovers conceded

Very much agree that it looked better. Low base though - and caught napping on more than a couple of times (on field).
Here's hoping for continued improvement at Gloucs next time out - the will put us to the test although, for me , they play in a manageable 'straight ahead' manner .
Fingers crossed , anyway.

[Rugbygramps]

'fraid artificial surfaces are part and parcel of the game now ... Progress ?
Guess like everything else balance has to be struck and obvious risk to particular players has to be taken into account.
Re. the Centre pairing , for me, a place has to be found for Matt Scott - clever player and still a classy operator.
Does the right things at the right times over and over ...

Biggest concern as a whole though remains our defence.

I thought our defence was a big step up yesterday and there were a lot more positive collisions which helped with a number of Reffells turnovers.
A team like Saints is always going to score end to end tries it’s the way they play. The trade off is their set piece and turnovers conceded

Very much agree that it looked better. Low base though - and caught napping on more than a couple of times (on field).
Here's hoping for continued improvement at Gloucs next time out - the will put us to the test although, for me , they play in a manageable 'straight ahead' manner .
Fingers crossed , anyway.

Yes low base but as you say improvements made. Gloucester game could well have a similar feel to Saints, with us dominating set piece and break down and them playing a looser game which is how they almost clawed it back v Exeter. I have a good feeling about going there it is a good playing surface and we have had recent success

[ourla]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I genuinely didn't think Lenny had a bad game today. Yes, there was the one iffy kick towards the end but I thought he was decent.

On a separate note, did anyone spy our backs coach on the paddock today?

Nick Mullins mentioned him so he must have been there

He mentioned him but there was no camera shot so...

[ourla]

I thought there were a lot of positives on Saturday.

It was said Saints had got in a new D coach and they certainly were decent and better than last season. But our physicality at the breakdown was excellent. And putting pressure on Mitchell was smart.

As someone else mentioned I think we got away with one (at a crucial stage) with that knock on call. Equally we missed a couple of opportunities ourselves.

Let's hope we can build from here.

[Tigerbeat]

Thought the defence was good on Saturday.......the try after the 2 sin binnings just switched off concentration......more positives but still stuff to work on and as they play more together they will better understand each others quirks and gel.

[sapajo]

Thought the defence was good on Saturday.......the try after the 2 sin binnings just switched off concentration......more positives but still stuff to work on and as they play more together they will better understand each others quirks and gel.

One Saints try in the second half came shortly after Hanro's try when Jasper decided to throw the ball away and the Ref gave Saints a penalty for time wasting and after a number of phases they scored. A bit dumb to say the least

[AViewFromLe2]

Dickens is absent on leave atm.

I think Saturday showed the importance of Dan Kelly to the team in how he distributes the ball and works with Pollard to get the ball wider, whilst still fixing the defence in the midfield. It is very noticeable that Pollard plays his best rugby, and by association, so do we, when we have had Kelly or Gopperth at 12 to help with the distribution. Kata and Porter are good centres and have many strengths but that level of distribution is not one. Our link play is noticeably better with Kelly on the field.

As a result, i think Kelly is nailed on at 12 for me, with one of Kata, Porter or Scott at 13. Personally i think the choice is between Kata and Scott, so would be happy with either starting and the other on the bench. Youngs, Pollard, OHC, Kelly, Scott/Kata, Bassett and Steward, with a bench of Whitely, Shillock, Kata/Scott for me.

If Montoya is back on Saturday, then the extra physicality that he brings possibly means you can play Scott from the start. If Montoya is unavailable or only on the bench, then I would lean towards starting Kata for the extra bulk he brings.

Worryingly, we don't really have another 12 who can link play like Kelly in the Senior squad, in that second distributor mould. We do have Woodward who looks like he fits that brief but he is only 19 (i think), tough ask to rely on him when he's so young.

[MCC1964]

Dickens is absent on leave atm.

I think Saturday showed the importance of Dan Kelly to the team in how he distributes the ball and works with Pollard to get the ball wider, whilst still fixing the defence in the midfield. It is very noticeable that Pollard plays his best rugby, and by association, so do we, when we have had Kelly or Gopperth at 12 to help with the distribution. Kata and Porter are good centres and have many strengths but that level of distribution is not one. Our link play is noticeably better with Kelly on the field.

As a result, i think Kelly is nailed on at 12 for me, with one of Kata, Porter or Scott at 13. Personally i think the choice is between Kata and Scott, so would be happy with either starting and the other on the bench. Youngs, Pollard, OHC, Kelly, Scott/Kata, Bassett and Steward, with a bench of Whitely, Shillock, Kata/Scott for me.

If Montoya is back on Saturday, then the extra physicality that he brings possibly means you can play Scott from the start. If Montoya is unavailable or only on the bench, then I would lean towards starting Kata for the extra bulk he brings.

Worryingly, we don't really have another 12 who can link play like Kelly in the Senior squad, in that second distributor mould. We do have Woodward who looks like he fits that brief but he is only 19 (i think), tough ask to rely on him when he's so young.

I agree with you regarding DK. However, he seems really out of sorts at the moment, both form wise and body language. As does Guy Porter oddly. Hopefully they can get that from back pronto.

[AViewFromLe2]

Dickens is absent on leave atm.

I think Saturday showed the importance of Dan Kelly to the team in how he distributes the ball and works with Pollard to get the ball wider, whilst still fixing the defence in the midfield. It is very noticeable that Pollard plays his best rugby, and by association, so do we, when we have had Kelly or Gopperth at 12 to help with the distribution. Kata and Porter are good centres and have many strengths but that level of distribution is not one. Our link play is noticeably better with Kelly on the field.

As a result, i think Kelly is nailed on at 12 for me, with one of Kata, Porter or Scott at 13. Personally i think the choice is between Kata and Scott, so would be happy with either starting and the other on the bench. Youngs, Pollard, OHC, Kelly, Scott/Kata, Bassett and Steward, with a bench of Whitely, Shillock, Kata/Scott for me.

If Montoya is back on Saturday, then the extra physicality that he brings possibly means you can play Scott from the start. If Montoya is unavailable or only on the bench, then I would lean towards starting Kata for the extra bulk he brings.

Worryingly, we don't really have another 12 who can link play like Kelly in the Senior squad, in that second distributor mould. We do have Woodward who looks like he fits that brief but he is only 19 (i think), tough ask to rely on him when he's so young.

I agree with you regarding DK. However, he seems really out of sorts at the moment, both form wise and body language. As does Guy Porter oddly. Hopefully they can get that from back pronto.

I thought same immediately after the Quins game but on a rewatch a day later, he actually had a pretty good game overall. The drop takes the headlines, but his overall play, passing range and linking up was actually very strong. I think that is what helped the attacking stats be so good against Quins as he allowed Pollard to play more.

I do think Porter is out of sorts mind. Not by much, but enough for it to be noticeable