Wayne Barnes

[Tiglon]

My question would be, is football referees' behaviour the cause of players' behaviour, or is it a symptom of it?

If I was a referee and players were screaming in my face, I wouldn't be particularly inclined to attempt to have a conversation with them (and neither would a rugby referee).

You can argue it both ways.

[Jimmy Skitz]

My question would be, is football referees' behaviour the cause of players' behaviour, or is it a symptom of it?

If I was a referee and players were screaming in my face, I wouldn't be particularly inclined to attempt to have a conversation with them (and neither would a rugby referee).

You can argue it both ways.

its a bit of both I think, a lot of old pros talk fondly of the days where a player would ask a ref if he was blind for missing a call and the would would ask if he was sure he's a footballer for shanking a shot 20 yards wide and how the relationship was much better and so was the behaviour towards the ref. When or why the change occurred I'm not sure

[mol2]

The problem is soccer refs have no real sanctions to backchat.

Imagine if they could move the free kick 10m on? If that 10m took it to the penalty area it becomes a penalty and if they backchat about a penalty it becomes a penalty goal..... Square up to the ref and it's a red card. One round of matches would be all it would take to end the woeful example many of the players set to children.

We have seen the marching back 10m in rugby being done more this season in the premiership which is a good thing.

For me the only person who should initiate a discussion should be the captain. Anyone else does or questions the decision should be sanctioned.

People who play sports that involve an umpire or referee have to accept they play to the rules/laws and if their sport has a ref appointed to officiate you have to accept that. Many sports have pathways for feedback on the competence of refs for after the game. I am puzzled how soccer seems to have issues with their video refs. With virtual lines across the pitch offside should be near impossible to get wrong. This is something rugby should use for forward passes and take away the interpretation element.

I don't have a problem with the crowd showing their disapproval but that cannot go beyond booing or a slow hand clap but cannot ever extend to personal abuse. Totally different to a rant at a TV screen where no once else is going to have to listen to my ranting.

[Jimmy Skitz]

they tried advancing 10 yards about 10 years ago and it didn't really work and it was dropped fairly quickly. I don't mind the idea of sin bins for dissent, players would soon adjust same as they would if shirt pulling at corners was punished more harshly.

Refs can send players off for foul and abusive language, in fact the Brighton captain was sent off for it just the other week, not much coverage because it was Brighton also I think a lot of people thought it was a second yellow not a straight red. Had that been the captain of Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool etc it would have gotten much more coverage and maybe sent a firmer message

[Rugbygramps]

My biggest issue in football is the surrounding of the referee by which can only be described as a mob of players as if they are going to get him to change his mind, which I don’t think I’ve ever seen. If the crowd see their team acting this way of course they are going to abuse the official.

This is something we don’t get in rugby, long May it continue. I do agree with the majority of the communication going through the captain, no problem with a player asking politely at the next break in play why he was penalised, and you do often refs saying something like “That’s not how I saw it”

What we don’t need is the Biggars, Farrells and Sextons of this world screaming at he ref

[Jimmy Skitz]

My biggest issue in football is the surrounding of the referee by which can only be described as a mob of players as if they are going to get him to change his mind, which I don’t think I’ve ever seen. If the crowd see their team acting this way of course they are going to abuse the official.

This is something we don’t get in rugby, long May it continue. I do agree with the majority of the communication going through the captain, no problem with a player asking politely at the next break in play why he was penalised, and you do often refs saying something like “That’s not how I saw it”

What we don’t need is the Biggars, Farrells and Sextons of this world screaming at he ref

Luke Pearce is great at that, lets the player have his gripe then says "that's not how I saw it, if I got wrong I apologise but that was my decision" its that little personal touch that calms things so much, in football you just see the ref telling the captain let alone everyone else "go away" all it needs is a quick explanation.

The best football ref I remember was the Italian Pier Luigi Collina, he was an imposing figure in himself but he always seemed open to dialog and very rarely got any kind of grief from the players

[Rugbygramps]

Collina was great a cross between Uncle Fester and Voldemort

[Jimmy Skitz]

I'm talking about frustrations btw not what happened at Man City this past weekend, Haaland went well beyond the line and the FA utterly failed Simon Hooper and PGMOL by not charging him, only City as a club have been charged which will be nothing more than a fine.

[ourla]

I'm also talking about players not idiots on social media who would dare say anything if face to face.

The conversation has drifted around a little but part of the conversation was about Barnes and Foley getting abused (mostly on social media) I believe. Hence, partly or wholly why they are quitting.

Rugby refs have an open dialog with players, thus players behave better with refs.

Rugby is and has flirted with a more football minded behaviour from fans, players, coaches in recent years (Hartley, Sinclair expletives, the odd altercation between fans, Erasmus comments) but generally I would agree the dialogue/understanding remains better.

Respect is both earned and a 2 way street, if you act like you are above someone simply because you have a whistle people will not respect you, I saw this with my own eyes, when I was young I would go watch my dad ref, there were often multiple games going on, I would see how he was treating and treated by the player compared to others, he was treated with far more respect because he treated others with that same respect.

Other refs are far too concerned with being seen to be in charge than simply being in charge, I'll never forget that he used to tell the players my job now is to stop you lot doing what I used to get away with and they would smirk and have laugh with him.

I'm currently listening to Wayne Barnes autobiography audio book he talks about the need to engage with players and yes when to turn a deaf ear to certain comments

I play a lot of and referee volleyball myself - and there are certainly things you can do to win players over and make sure things stay 'friendly' but at the same time some players, coaches, supporters, just lose their rag/sense of perspective too easily.

If I found a waiter in a restaurant a bit surly/unhelpful, I would give my feedback through discrete/proper channels rather than berating them in public or online.

[Tiglon]

My biggest issue in football is the surrounding of the referee by which can only be described as a mob of players as if they are going to get him to change his mind, which I don’t think I’ve ever seen. If the crowd see their team acting this way of course they are going to abuse the official.

This is something we don’t get in rugby, long May it continue. I do agree with the majority of the communication going through the captain, no problem with a player asking politely at the next break in play why he was penalised, and you do often refs saying something like “That’s not how I saw it”

What we don’t need is the Biggars, Farrells and Sextons of this world screaming at he ref

Luke Pearce is great at that, lets the player have his gripe then says "that's not how I saw it, if I got wrong I apologise but that was my decision" its that little personal touch that calms things so much, in football you just see the ref telling the captain let alone everyone else "go away" all it needs is a quick explanation.

The best football ref I remember was the Italian Pier Luigi Collina, he was an imposing figure in himself but he always seemed open to dialog and very rarely got any kind of grief from the players

I do think there is less need to explain most decisions in football. It's usually pretty obvious what was given and the screaming/mobbing from players tends to be saying the referee he is wrong, rather than not understanding the decision.

In rugby, if the ref doesn't explain decisions then players (and viewers!) often aren't going to have a clue what's happened.

[Rugbygramps]

World rugby is launching prosecutions in 5 countries after criticism and abuse on social media against Barnes and Foley.
Working with data science company Signify Group to identify the online abusers

[Jimmy Skitz]

World rugby is launching prosecutions in 5 countries after criticism and abuse on social media against Barnes and Foley.
Working with data science company Signify Group to identify the online abusers

prosecuting criticism? people needs to stop conflating the 2, criticism is fine

[Scott1]

World rugby is launching prosecutions in 5 countries after criticism and abuse on social media against Barnes and Foley.
Working with data science company Signify Group to identify the online abusers

prosecuting criticism? people needs to stop conflating the 2, criticism is fine

This ^

[Rugbygramps]

World rugby is launching prosecutions in 5 countries after criticism and abuse on social media against Barnes and Foley.
Working with data science company Signify Group to identify the online abusers

prosecuting criticism? people needs to stop conflating the 2, criticism is fine

You are right I suppose the issue may be is that one can lead to the other, and also is the criticism real or just something fabricated in a posters mind.

What I initially posted was a direct quote btw not my words