Pre-season friendly - Nottingham - 1st September 2023 KO: 7:30pm

[sk 88]

Disagree entirely. Thought Powell was very good and one of the standout players. Quick to the breakdown and got the ball away. Edwards did more box kicking and Meerkating and has no chance of first team appearance on that form.

I've not seen the game but it's worth remembering that Powell got a strong first team pack that was in ascendency whilst Edwards got a younger less experienced pack that had nowhere near the momentum Powell had in the first half. Ditto the backline went from strong Prem level backline to mostly academy prospects.

Edwards is a young guy with huge potential. Great kicking and passing game, solid in defence and seems happy barking instructions. His weakness is his speed from the breakdown and sniping game. Hopefully Powell will act as a good mentor in this as these are his strengths, bring Edwards out of his shell.

I suspect Whiteley may find himself struggling for game time and swiftly down the pecking order.

Indeed.
Powell is clearly better overall at the moment, but is nowhere near the level of our usual players. If Edwards can't improve to overcome him then hopefully the next cab off the rank will. It's a big positive to have players you can realistically target to over take.

[sk 88]

SB had a whole season of awful performances before it was a brilliant turn around.
Wigglesworth took over and turned it round after 3-4 games. Up until SB and Sinfield left we put in some really inept performances such as Sale at home and Saracens away.
We won the Premiership with great tactics on the day and brave selection choices but that style of play is now outmoded!
Now it’s time not only to get behind our new coaches and players but also to be patient. World Cup years have never been good for us so it will be an interesting few months ahead.

I mean .... what??

His first season in charge saw sustained improvement from our lowest ever ebb, including getting back to Twickenham in the Challenge Cup final.

I don't particularly disagree with any of the rest, though would say Pollard getting fit should not be overlooked or down graded. He's a class above the other options.

[ay2oh]

Ian Cant memory is failing him . In his first season Borthwick took us to six in the table in which he picked a strong team for home games and used away games to experiment by introducing a number of academy players giving them valuable experience . Without this rotation many of the players who we now class as first choice may not have ever made the first team. In my view 11th to sixth in his first season is a very good improvement.

[LE18]

Disagree entirely. Thought Powell was very good and one of the standout players. Quick to the breakdown and got the ball away. Edwards did more box kicking and Meerkating and has no chance of first team appearance on that form.

I've not seen the game but it's worth remembering that Powell got a strong first team pack that was in ascendency whilst Edwards got a younger less experienced pack that had nowhere near the momentum Powell had in the first half. Ditto the backline went from strong Prem level backline to mostly academy prospects.

Edwards is a young guy with huge potential. Great kicking and passing game, solid in defence and seems happy barking instructions. His weakness is his speed from the breakdown and sniping game. Hopefully Powell will act as a good mentor in this as these are his strengths, bring Edwards out of his shell.

I suspect Whiteley may find himself struggling for game time and swiftly down the pecking order.

Indeed.
Powell is clearly better overall at the moment, but is nowhere near the level of our usual players. If Edwards can't improve to overcome him then hopefully the next cab off the rank will. It's a big positive to have players you can realistically target to over take.

I thought Powell had a great half. We need to remember we have a new Head Coach and stop referring to SB or WW tactics, and to my mind he has changed our tactics, to which Powell adapted perfectly. Get ball off pitch when in our 22, perfect, let our line out win the ball back, don't kick to opposition and let them run it back with momentum and catch you out of position, get ball dead and start afresh. London Irish played much more running based tactics, Powell brought that to Tigers, he was very quick to breakdown, swift pass, I cannot remember any going to the ankles, what about his snipping try. He was good and I think he will be first choice this half of the year .

[LE18]

I've not seen the game but it's worth remembering that Powell got a strong first team pack that was in ascendency whilst Edwards got a younger less experienced pack that had nowhere near the momentum Powell had in the first half. Ditto the backline went from strong Prem level backline to mostly academy prospects.

Edwards is a young guy with huge potential. Great kicking and passing game, solid in defence and seems happy barking instructions. His weakness is his speed from the breakdown and sniping game. Hopefully Powell will act as a good mentor in this as these are his strengths, bring Edwards out of his shell.

I suspect Whiteley may find himself struggling for game time and swiftly down the pecking order.

Indeed.
Powell is clearly better overall at the moment, but is nowhere near the level of our usual players. If Edwards can't improve to overcome him then hopefully the next cab off the rank will. It's a big positive to have players you can realistically target to over take.

I thought Powell had a great half. We need to remember we have a new Head Coach and stop referring to SB or WW tactics, and to my mind he has changed our tactics, to which Powell adapted perfectly. Get ball off pitch when in our 22, perfect, let our line out win the ball back, don't kick to opposition and let them run it back with momentum and catch you out of position, get ball dead and start afresh. London Irish played much more running based tactics, Powell brought that to Tigers, he was very quick to breakdown, swift pass, I cannot remember any going to the ankles, what about his snipping try. He was good and I think he will be first choice this half of the year .

He's a ringer for Sam Harrison and you all liked him.

Incidentally if you didn't see game how did you come to conclusion that he's not as good as our usual SHs?

[sk 88]

I've not seen the game but it's worth remembering that Powell got a strong first team pack that was in ascendency whilst Edwards got a younger less experienced pack that had nowhere near the momentum Powell had in the first half. Ditto the backline went from strong Prem level backline to mostly academy prospects.

Edwards is a young guy with huge potential. Great kicking and passing game, solid in defence and seems happy barking instructions. His weakness is his speed from the breakdown and sniping game. Hopefully Powell will act as a good mentor in this as these are his strengths, bring Edwards out of his shell.

I suspect Whiteley may find himself struggling for game time and swiftly down the pecking order.

Indeed.
Powell is clearly better overall at the moment, but is nowhere near the level of our usual players. If Edwards can't improve to overcome him then hopefully the next cab off the rank will. It's a big positive to have players you can realistically target to over take.

I thought Powell had a great half. We need to remember we have a new Head Coach and stop referring to SB or WW tactics, and to my mind he has changed our tactics, to which Powell adapted perfectly. Get ball off pitch when in our 22, perfect, let our line out win the ball back, don't kick to opposition and let them run it back with momentum and catch you out of position, get ball dead and start afresh. London Irish played much more running based tactics, Powell brought that to Tigers, he was very quick to breakdown, swift pass, I cannot remember any going to the ankles, what about his snipping try. He was good and I think he will be first choice this half of the year .

I think the chances of those being our tactics in league games is nil.

If our "brand new tactics" are to give the opposition first phase ball 40m from our line then we will be toast. Given this was a pre-season game I think it is far more likely we were looking to practice our defensive line outs.

People are reading a lot into a half where the forwards massively over matched Nottingham. Any team would run more loosely when they have front foot ball from practically every ruck.

[sam16111986]

I've not seen the game but it's worth remembering that Powell got a strong first team pack that was in ascendency whilst Edwards got a younger less experienced pack that had nowhere near the momentum Powell had in the first half. Ditto the backline went from strong Prem level backline to mostly academy prospects.

Edwards is a young guy with huge potential. Great kicking and passing game, solid in defence and seems happy barking instructions. His weakness is his speed from the breakdown and sniping game. Hopefully Powell will act as a good mentor in this as these are his strengths, bring Edwards out of his shell.

I suspect Whiteley may find himself struggling for game time and swiftly down the pecking order.

Indeed.
Powell is clearly better overall at the moment, but is nowhere near the level of our usual players. If Edwards can't improve to overcome him then hopefully the next cab off the rank will. It's a big positive to have players you can realistically target to over take.

I thought Powell had a great half. We need to remember we have a new Head Coach and stop referring to SB or WW tactics, and to my mind he has changed our tactics, to which Powell adapted perfectly. Get ball off pitch when in our 22, perfect, let our line out win the ball back, don't kick to opposition and let them run it back with momentum and catch you out of position, get ball dead and start afresh. London Irish played much more running based tactics, Powell brought that to Tigers, he was very quick to breakdown, swift pass, I cannot remember any going to the ankles, what about his snipping try. He was good and I think he will be first choice this half of the year .

I believe the point of that tactic was to try and either take man and ball forcing the opposition backline to secure the breakdown (if they could). Leaves the opposition with mainly forwards on their feet so they can't kick so you look for the chop tackle on their reset ball carrier and then attack the breakdown. We scored a lot of points under Borthwick using that tactic, helped by the fact that if we didn't win the ball they'd probably then kick it back for Steward to claim and we'd go again.

[LE18]

Indeed.
Powell is clearly better overall at the moment, but is nowhere near the level of our usual players. If Edwards can't improve to overcome him then hopefully the next cab off the rank will. It's a big positive to have players you can realistically target to over take.

I thought Powell had a great half. We need to remember we have a new Head Coach and stop referring to SB or WW tactics, and to my mind he has changed our tactics, to which Powell adapted perfectly. Get ball off pitch when in our 22, perfect, let our line out win the ball back, don't kick to opposition and let them run it back with momentum and catch you out of position, get ball dead and start afresh. London Irish played much more running based tactics, Powell brought that to Tigers, he was very quick to breakdown, swift pass, I cannot remember any going to the ankles, what about his snipping try. He was good and I think he will be first choice this half of the year .

I think the chances of those being our tactics in league games is nil.

If our "brand new tactics" are to give the opposition first phase ball 40m from our line then we will be toast. Given this was a pre-season game I think it is far more likely we were looking to practice our defensive line outs.

People are reading a lot into a half where the forwards massively over matched Nottingham. Any team would run more loosely when they have front foot ball from practically every ruck.

I prefer my interpretation to your assumed opposition winning ball back from lineout so easily.

[johnthegriff]

I thought Powell had a good game, I assume he p!ayed according to instruction and did it well, of course as someone else said he was operating behind a dominant pack, Edwards did not have that luxury. Powell has been capped by Australia so he has the quality to rival.our existing 9's for a starting position.
I look forward to next week's team, I am sure we will see many changes before we meet Bristol and competition for places will hasten improvement throughout the team.

[LE18]

I thought Powell had a good game, I assume he p!ayed according to instruction and did it well, of course as someone else said he was operating behind a dominant pack, Edwards did not have that luxury. Powell has been capped by Australia so he has the quality to rival.our existing 9's for a starting position.
I look forward to next week's team, I am sure we will see many changes before we meet Bristol and competition for places will hasten improvement throughout the team.

John other posters might not realise that Notts also changed the majority, if not all, of their team in the second half so one needs to ask is our 2nd half team, yes youngsters, but what were Notts, were ours better than Notts second?
Clearly not on the night the answer is No, Notts won that half approx, 18 -5 scoring 3 very well worked tries.
I think Edwards kicked too much and very poorly. Just like our old style, I don't think our 2nd half team performed as they should have and lost to Notts 2nds.

[ay2oh]

Trouble is it’s not really our first and second team is it as we have around 15 players unavailable for various reasons.

[anz3001]

Great to be back ‘int it!

[ABClub]

I thought Powell had a great half. We need to remember we have a new Head Coach and stop referring to SB or WW tactics, and to my mind he has changed our tactics, to which Powell adapted perfectly. Get ball off pitch when in our 22, perfect, let our line out win the ball back, don't kick to opposition and let them run it back with momentum and catch you out of position, get ball dead and start afresh. London Irish played much more running based tactics, Powell brought that to Tigers, he was very quick to breakdown, swift pass, I cannot remember any going to the ankles, what about his snipping try. He was good and I think he will be first choice this half of the year .

I think the chances of those being our tactics in league games is nil.

If our "brand new tactics" are to give the opposition first phase ball 40m from our line then we will be toast. Given this was a pre-season game I think it is far more likely we were looking to practice our defensive line outs.

People are reading a lot into a half where the forwards massively over matched Nottingham. Any team would run more loosely when they have front foot ball from practically every ruck.

I prefer my interpretation to your assumed opposition winning ball back from lineout so easily.

How often do good teams get turned over at the lineout these days? If that's the tactics against the top end of the Premiership then we will be cut apart even with the leagues currently lower standards.

[Scott1]

I think the chances of those being our tactics in league games is nil.

If our "brand new tactics" are to give the opposition first phase ball 40m from our line then we will be toast. Given this was a pre-season game I think it is far more likely we were looking to practice our defensive line outs.

People are reading a lot into a half where the forwards massively over matched Nottingham. Any team would run more loosely when they have front foot ball from practically every ruck.

I prefer my interpretation to your assumed opposition winning ball back from lineout so easily.

How often do good teams get turned over at the lineout these days? If that's the tactics against the top end of the Premiership then we will be cut apart even with the leagues currently lower standards.

Yes,unbelievably crazy tactics,I thought he was on a wind up tbh! By all means get the ball off the field when needed and that's one of the attributes of BY I still rate very highly. 99/100 he will make the right kick and execute it

[RunTigerRun]

I think the chances of those being our tactics in league games is nil.

If our "brand new tactics" are to give the opposition first phase ball 40m from our line then we will be toast. Given this was a pre-season game I think it is far more likely we were looking to practice our defensive line outs.

People are reading a lot into a half where the forwards massively over matched Nottingham. Any team would run more loosely when they have front foot ball from practically every ruck.

I prefer my interpretation to your assumed opposition winning ball back from lineout so easily.

How often do good teams get turned over at the lineout these days? If that's the tactics against the top end of the Premiership then we will be cut apart even with the leagues currently lower standards.

I agree few of the top teams will get turned over cleanly at the lineout. But if we can put on enough pressure with the likes of Henderson, Carter, Wells, Chessum/s, Liebenberg etc, then if forces more chaotic pressure for the opposition. Our high line of defence to rush up and then put pressure on the 9 and the 10 then gives us more of an opportunity, and if not we still have some good counter attack threat from the likes of Steward, OHC, Watson?, Shillcock, Basset etc to profit.

I’m not saying it’s the best tactic to use, and like some I’d like to see more attacking shape. But as LE18 has said, the winning years of Tigers teams have been founded with very good basics (defence, scrum, lineout, maul, kicking) and clinical backs play. As we found with SB in the first season, get the basics right and we can then add the attack on top. It’s a shame we seemed to stagnate following the prem win and the adding didn’t happen - but I think if DMK can get the basics sharp again, and start to add some of the flair that those who attended on Friday suggested was beginning to show, we will hopefully be in a decent place.

Time will tell as to whether it comes together and works against different opposition, but it sounds from all accounts as though the thinking is at least in the right place.