Rugby World Cup warm up games

[Hot_Charlie]

Unless a miracle happens, SB will be looking for a job in six weeks time. Where does he go from here?

Has to get out the group stages,then I think he will just about be safe. Anything less and he’s toast.

Nah - very very unlikely.

Agree. He doesn't even complete his coaching set-up til after the RWC. Sadly, whatever the results, it's Bill Sweeney who will have to carry any can that comes with RWC humiliation. He chose to get rid of Jones and the dire mess that has resulted.

[Scott1]

Unless a miracle happens, SB will be looking for a job in six weeks time. Where does he go from here?

Has to get out the group stages,then I think he will just about be safe. Anything less and he’s toast.

Nah - very very unlikely.

Hugely likely for me,look at the headlines and media already. Hit pieces popping up everywhere,and we know what the RFU are like,they will sacrifice someone else to save their own skin if needs be. The pressure will be too great,if we go out the group stages he’s gone I’m afraid. And the fans have spoken ,HQ couldn’t sell out for the Fiji game,that’s bad! Others have said it doesn’t matter if fans don’t turn up for the home 6N games,our opponents will just buy up the tickets to see us get smashed. That’s utter crazy talk,you think the RFU will sit back and let us be the “away” fans in our own ground? Come on now,let’s be sensible here.

[Scott1]

Has to get out the group stages,then I think he will just about be safe. Anything less and he’s toast.

Nah - very very unlikely.

Agree. He doesn't even complete his coaching set-up til after the RWC. Sadly, whatever the results, it's Bill Sweeney who will have to carry any can that comes with RWC humiliation. He chose to get rid of Jones and the dire mess that has resulted.

He won’t care ,fans are easily appeased and it’s only the “hardcore” rugby fan that sees the real problem and it’s the “casual” fan that fills HQ year in year out. Bill sacks Borths after a RWC group stage exit and employs what the casual fan thinks is the right appointment and all is forgotten and HQ is full again for the 6N. Sad but 100% true I’m afraid

[Scott1]

It’s very likely that a group stage exit will award Borths the title of “worse England coach ever”which will be splashed everywhere. And people think that’s survivable? No chance! Put that together with how easy the group is on paper,then there’s the probable player/coach fallouts we will see murmurings of and he’s done. If it happens and he survives it I will be the first to say I was wrong but I’m massively confident he will be out. But hopefully we get it together and we surprise everyone and it all gels for Argentina. Don’t forget we don’t even have to win the group to get a nice QF because of the draw so a SF could still be on! Who knows?! I desperately hope it all clicks

[LE18]

Our defence is still a very big worry, as is our attack, but is Kevin Sinfield the right bloke? Our defence, and that included Tigers sometimes, is porous, players are making standing tackles, as per Rugby League. I have asked before is a Rugby League guy right for Rugby Union, League is a completely different defence, its all about making 6 stopping tackles then you get the ball back, Union you have to fight for everything to get it back, no falling down and healing back.

[ay2oh]

If an international Rugby player doesn’t know how to tackle it’s not the coaches fault. His job is to make sure alignment is right and decide what type of defence is utilised I.e drift, rush etc. If an individual continually misses one on one tackles he shouldn’t be selected. End of.

[Tiglon]

Interesting that Borthwick, when asked about their poor attack before the Fiji game, said they've been spending the majority of the time in training focusing on attack. Not sure if that was true, or just trying to appease the media, but surely they're better off working on the basics of defence, handling, kicking, chasing and set piece.

I agree with Scott, if we fail to make it out of that group the media and fan pressure to sack the head coach will be intense. Sweeney is very calculated in his lack of media appearances, as pointed out by Scott and a recent newspaper article, it means 95% of "England supporters" haven't got a clue who he is and all the criticism will fall on Borthwick.

Still, we're probably just a win against Samoa away from a quarter final, which is doable (if very far from guaranteed!) and probably just about enough to limp through to the 6N with the current coaching setup.

As we all know from his Tigers days, Borthwick is not good/friendly with the media and they are already out to get him. Naive from him and the RFU that there hasn't been enough focus on that part of the job to get him performing better in front of the cameras.

[Scott1]

No ban for Barrett. Red card was sufficient as one of the yellows was for a technical offence. I thought as much at the time but wasn’t 100%

[Scott1]

Apparently 10k tickets were given away for the Fiji game despite some being priced as little as £22.50 and Fiji brought 15k fans. And it was still close to half empty,ouch!

[Old Hob]

George Ford now saying they're not training properly. Not really sure what he meant by that.

[Scott1]

George Ford now saying they're not training properly. Not really sure what he meant by that.

Yeah saw that,very strange!

[KiwiTig]

I think what hurts me most is that Borthwick had a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something different.
He could have taken a squad of youth and potential to France and they could have had a go.
If they failed, they tried and we learn and rebuild
Instead, he repeats plan A with a squad of ageing international players who would win a game of Top Trumps hands down but aren’t on form-albeit fit his one dimensional game Plan A
I feel that Borthwick has surrounded himself with sycophants who are enjoying the ride as much as he thought he would
I hope I’m proven to be wrong as us Kiwis aren’t firing as we should.
I’m hoping that my adopted Tigers will thrive under McKellar and maybe Borthwick was just a one hit wonder ?
Time will be the judge

[Scott1]

I think what hurts me most is that Borthwick had a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something different.
He could have taken a squad of youth and potential to France and they could have had a go.
If they failed, they tried and we learn and rebuild
Instead, he repeats plan A with a squad of ageing international players who would win a game of Top Trumps hands down but aren’t on form-albeit fit his one dimensional game Plan A
I feel that Borthwick has surrounded himself with sycophants who are enjoying the ride as much as he thought he would
I hope I’m proven to be wrong as us Kiwis aren’t firing as we should.
I’m hoping that my adopted Tigers will thrive under McKellar and maybe Borthwick was just a one hit wonder ?
Time will be the judge

That’s exactly my thoughts too!

[trendylfj]

I really don't know the answer to this but I seem to remember that SB had to keep most of EJs players and could only swap a certain number. If that is true then I have some sympathy with his position re the WC squad. Too many of the "old guard" still there and I want to see the next group of centrally retained players - can't remember the wording for these players - and hope to see some younger players - Murley, OHC, Radwan, Quirke and Kelly etc. Young exciting players with real pace rather than players who have been there for ages without success.

[ABClub]

I really don't know the answer to this but I seem to remember that SB had to keep most of EJs players and could only swap a certain number. If that is true then I have some sympathy with his position re the WC squad. Too many of the "old guard" still there and I want to see the next group of centrally retained players - can't remember the wording for these players - and hope to see some younger players - Murley, OHC, Radwan, Quirke and Kelly etc. Young exciting players with real pace rather than players who have been there for ages without success.

It's a 45-man EPS at the start of the season with 5 changes permitted in January. Then injury changes. So a pretty huge pool to select his training squads from even within the limits.

The England coach can also approach clubs through PRL to request further changes if they wish. From the rumours I've heard repeatedly these requests are yet to be turned down. Which makes sense really. Imagine a conversation between a player who was outside the EPS but had earned a callup and their club coach that turns it down. "Sorry mate but we didn't think you had a hope of playing for England this season so I haven't recruited sufficient depth to release you. Hopefully you get another shot at your dream."

There were articles from the Mail and Telegraph (usually good with England rugby stuff) when Borthwick took over reporting the clubs had agreed to allow him additional changes due to circumstances anyway.

Basically, I really doubt that Borth was actually limited by the EPS. I'd certainly argue, and have, that any England coach at the moment will be limited by the Prem's divebomb in week to week standard failing to prepare players for international duty. But having Premiership players available isn't one of the limitations. Rather the standard they are playing at.