Rugby World Cup warm up games

[Darc Tiger]

Tough, they wanted the last guy out, deal with the consequences of that action.

Its the RFU's fault, not the fans. The fans have a right to demand better. Especially if they're actually paying Twickenham prices.

What else could have the RFU done? They got the coach who was going to replace Eddie after the world cup anyway. There was no other magic bullet coaches out there at the time who could come in and save the day. As far as I am concerned the press/media and the fans who were driving Jones out are to blame for this, reeks of first order thinking. It is why I was in somewhat disbelief Tigers fans pushing for Jones to be sacked couldn't see Borthwick leaving coming a mile off, who else was it ever going to be.

Let's be real. The RFU dithered on Eddie for too long, then lost their nerve, and now find themselves squarely between two stools.

If they truly were married to the idea that the only thing that mattered was the world cup, as they seemed to for a long time, they should have had the guts to stick to that conviction.

They scrambled to get their (by all accounts) preordained candidate in and gave him a dodgy hand to kick off. A coach who doesn't actually have that much experience or pedigree, combined with a coaching staff with similarly light credentials. That was their gamble, which they had lots of time to assess.

Then we have the general malaise of the English system, much of which can be at least partially blamed on their leadership.

They get paid the big money to see beyond what the fans and media as squawking, and make the big calls. They're one of the biggest Unions in the world, with a big player-base.

Its one thing to have a bad patch, but essentially telling paying customers for years to put up with incompetence on the far from guaranteed promise that the end of the tunnel is coming (despite evidence to the contrary) is another.

At the risk of getting political, I can't help but draw parallels with the state of the country in general. The people have a right to demand better from the people in charge.

[Scott1]

Its the RFU's fault, not the fans. The fans have a right to demand better. Especially if they're actually paying Twickenham prices.

What else could have the RFU done? They got the coach who was going to replace Eddie after the world cup anyway. There was no other magic bullet coaches out there at the time who could come in and save the day. As far as I am concerned the press/media and the fans who were driving Jones out are to blame for this, reeks of first order thinking. It is why I was in somewhat disbelief Tigers fans pushing for Jones to be sacked couldn't see Borthwick leaving coming a mile off, who else was it ever going to be.

Let's be real. The RFU dithered on Eddie for too long, then lost their nerve, and now find themselves squarely between two stools.

If they truly were married to the idea that the only thing that mattered was the world cup, as they seemed to for a long time, they should have had the guts to stick to that conviction.

They scrambled to get their (by all accounts) preordained candidate in and gave him a dodgy hand to kick off. A coach who doesn't actually have that much experience or pedigree, combined with a coaching staff with similarly light credentials. That was their gamble, which they had lots of time to assess.

Then we have the general malaise of the English system, much of which can be at least partially blamed on their leadership.

They get paid the big money to see beyond what the fans and media as squawking, and make the big calls. They're one of the biggest Unions in the world, with a big player-base.

Its one thing to have a bad patch, but essentially telling paying customers for years to put up with incompetence on the far from guaranteed promise that the end of the tunnel is coming (despite evidence to the contrary) is another.

At the risk of getting political, I can't help but draw parallels with the state of the country in general. The people have a right to demand better from the people in charge.

They don’t care ,pigs with their noses in the trough. Like the BBBoC ,jobs for the boys

[fentiger]

At the risk of getting political, I can't help but draw parallels with the state of the country in general. The people have a right to demand better from the people in charge.

In a nutshell in both cases

[markharbtiger]

But they don't mean anything you don't win the WC now, the only games that matter for England start from the 9th of September, getting upset before then seems like a waste of time and effort.

Though England fans have been hearing this for 3 years now. It isn't sustainable. If they underperform at the WC, with the draw they have, the mood will be relentlessly grim.

Tough, they wanted the last guy out, deal with the consequences of that action.

Indeed!

[Old Hob]

I don’t think the RFU will sack Borthwick. A. It says very loud and clear that they backed the wrong horse with all its stable hands. B. I believe that our Andrea helped Tigers to a nice wedge of RFU coffers, so they would have lots of contracts to pay off and then find another coach, likely to be in employment, costing more money.
They must have known England were in a bit of trouble or those in charge of the RFU don’t appear to be suitable for the role.

Won't bother them ,they have no shame. If the pressures there and the fans and press have turned they will get rid. Fans are easily appeased and with the right appointment after that the RFU will be forgotten about. Look at the situation now,it's not the RFU the fans are turning on its Borths. I'd say,a group stage exit and he's gone,anything more then he will be alright. For now.....

I agree with you, Doctor. It also seems to me that a lot of anti-Borthwick flak is a revival of anti-Leicester feeling. It is also based on myths; for example, England do not kick more than other teams.

Quote from George Ford:
"The coaches have the vision and the plan but the players are the ones who have got to bring it to life and drive it. We understand that there's an urgency in and around that clearly after a couple of our performances, but we're confident we'll do it."

[Scott1]

I always laugh when folk bring up quotes from players about their current coaches or current team mates,what do you expect them to say?!

[Old Hob]

I always laugh when folk bring up quotes from players about their current coaches or current team mates, what do you expect them to say?!

Nothing, or some palliative/ bromide not ringing endorsements.

[Scott1]

I always laugh when folk bring up quotes from players about their current coaches or current team mates, what do you expect them to say?!

Nothing, or some palliative/ bromide not ringing endorsements.

I’ll look out for the books that come out after their retirement!

[TigerFeetSteve]

2019 is when Borthwick was preordained as EJ's successor.

Back then when England pack did all required till the final...

Borthwick was the chosen man, because Eddie was staying for another cycle.

He was then handpicked to come to us and earn stripes in the top job at a club. We were perfect, a shot to nothing, but as hoped, Borthwick succeeded. Problem was, Eddie was struggling. They couldn't afford to get rid of him and his successor hadn't succeeded, then it got worse for the RFU, EJ kept losing, but an olive branch, Borthwick had succeeded beyond planned, they could appoint him if the scrapped off Eddie.

Panic had set in their 8 year plan is now almost up in smoke and they need Borthwick to do well enough to remain till 2027

[mol2]

Unless Borthwick works a miracle and turns this shambles around over the next couple of years, Sean Edwards will be coming to the end of his France contract!

I jest: there is no way a plain speaking individual like Edwards would be appointed by England.

[tigerburnie]

Well Eddie isn't exactly setting the world on fire either is he?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66630985

[fortysix]

Unless a miracle happens, SB will be looking for a job in six weeks time. Where does he go from here?

[Scott1]

Unless a miracle happens, SB will be looking for a job in six weeks time. Where does he go from here?

Has to get out the group stages,then I think he will just about be safe. Anything less and he’s toast.

[Scott1]

Some of these marks are brutal,but right in some cases!

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/england- ... ions-2023/

[markharbtiger]

Unless a miracle happens, SB will be looking for a job in six weeks time. Where does he go from here?

Has to get out the group stages,then I think he will just about be safe. Anything less and he’s toast.

Nah - very very unlikely.