Premiership restructuring draws closer

[tigerburnie]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/rugby/w ... ce3&ei=152

No mention of debts and creditors??

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I've no problem with them coming back TBH, if it means a good 2 tier system and helps the game as a whole grow in England.

I wouldn't want to see them shoved in there though in place of other teams that might have a geniune interest if things are actually going to start to change for the better. I assume though that there won't be enough teams at the moment with the right potential to fully create the required 2 teir system though.

[Rugbygramps]

I've no problem with them coming back TBH, if it means a good 2 tier system and helps the game as a whole grow in England.

I wouldn't want to see them shoved in there though in place of other teams that might have a geniune interest if things are actually going to start to change for the better. I assume though that there won't be enough teams at the moment with the right potential to fully create the required 2 teir system though.

Agreed that if they come back it would mean the 2nd tier being stronger.

However it talks about 3 seasons time are these clubs going to just rise like phoenix from the ashes, where are players coming from the coaches, 2 of these clubs haven’t even got a ground to play at

[Scott1]

Just a desperation to get Wasps back in however possible imo,but there would be uproar if the same wasn't done with LI and Wuss

[kpj tiger]

"The most likely pathway would involve a move to a franchise system that will see clubs able to gain entry if they can prove they meet a revised minimum standards criteria that goes beyond having a stadium with a capacity of 10,000 but is also likely to include levels of support, strength of brand name, size of social media following and a long-term vision for growth."

That paragraph has me extremely uneasy. How do you even measure the strength of a brand name reliably? Social media follower numbers can be fluffed and they aren't a reliable source of information to who actually engages with the brand (This is why youtube ad revenue is done based on viewers per video rather than a flat rate based on subscribers). I also feel like if these rules were in place 15 years ago Exeter wouldn't have ever become the team they are now.

[tigerburnie]

That paragraph has me extremely uneasy. How do you even measure the strength of a brand name reliably? Social media follower numbers can be fluffed and they aren't a reliable source of information to who actually engages with the brand (This is why youtube ad revenue is done based on viewers per video rather than a flat rate based on subscribers). I also feel like if these rules were in place 15 years ago Exeter wouldn't have ever become the team they are now.

Sure Dayglo will wax lyrical about Wasps are too good to fail, even though they have consistently for at least a decade, financial sustainability is all smoke and mirrors.
I would say that unless debts are cleared, then the clubs are expelled to level 10

[johnthegriff]

I would like to see a two division Premiership with 12 teams in each division. If this is to be done on a franchise basis then throw it open to offers. If a wealthy business man or consortium wish to be involved provided they give personal guarantees for say give years so be it. Maybe a football team wanting to get more use out of their pitch might submit a bid or possibly a club based in Wales or even the Scottish Borders. I think there should be some relaxation of the 10k ground capacity rule should be relaxed particularly for division 2 provided the current ground meets certain requirements and there are ambitions for the future, consideration should also be given to achieving a geographical spread of our sport as there are plenty of areas lacking a high level rugby team although there are potential supporters in the area.

[tigerburnie]

No one wanted to buy Wasps when they had a team and a ground, the only way they could get back in and not pay their debts would be as a totally new club. Holland owns Wasps name, for him to use it, he should have to honour the rules and pay the rugby creditors.
Not sure about Worcester, who owns the ground now? Holland lent O'Toole money with a very short deadline to pay it back or forfeit the ground, so who owns Sixways now?
Irish are another odd one, do they have access to a ground, they don't have any players, who owns the name?

[wormus]

That paragraph has me extremely uneasy. How do you even measure the strength of a brand name reliably? Social media follower numbers can be fluffed and they aren't a reliable source of information to who actually engages with the brand (This is why youtube ad revenue is done based on viewers per video rather than a flat rate based on subscribers). I also feel like if these rules were in place 15 years ago Exeter wouldn't have ever become the team they are now.

Sure Dayglo will wax lyrical about Wasps are too good to fail, even though they have consistently for at least a decade, financial sustainability is all smoke and mirrors.
I would say that unless debts are cleared, then the clubs are expelled to level 10

Whereas I would really like to see a 12 team Premiership and a revitalised Championship with interplay for a trophy based on the Premiership selecting injury returning, academy and non regular players I am concerned the RFU are not really bothered.
I hope Jersey can get the extra ground capacity to qualify and Ealing make the step up asap to fill the gaps.

However anyone suggesting that Wasps "Financial Advisor!" Dayglo becomes involved had better recall he has a £700,000 debt already and boasted how easy it was to make the second million! Meeting him in Exeter was not a happy experience
when he saw my Tigers shirt at the Station.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 35590.html

[teds]

As I understand it, the administrators sold the Wasps name for next to nothing, so either the brand is worthless or they seem to have acted negligently in not realising it’s full value for the benefit of creditors.

It’s actually sickening to think such a toxic brand could re-emerge before the debts have been repaid.

[Old Hob]

Franchising, if done a la America would mean that we would be "Tigers" and if, say, a lucrative deal came up on Sixways we could be Worcester Tigers. I'm sure the nomadic Wasps see nothing wrong in this; after all, they see nothing wrong in walking away from creditors and thinking they should be allowed to start again without penalty.

[kpj tiger]

The reality is nobody is going to invest seriously in the premiership as long as the leeches known as CVC are involved.

I'm not sure as much revolution is needed as some people think, some major administration change is required but the league system needed refining more than completely tearing up, especially when the best the RFU/Prem Rugby can usually come up with is either copy the PL, NFL or apparently now the Hundred

[Scott1]

A 2 league Premiership would be a terrible idea imo. It would just be basically the same 12 teams in each league every year with most likely the same 2 swapping places every season,no thanks!

[tigerburnie]

For business to invest, there has to be a product that attracts them and as we have seen in three cases, no-one world wide was interested enough to sign a cheque. So a new exciting product has to come forwards, is this a new exciting product, I'm no business man, but it looks and smells malodious.
Here's a possible scenario, enter into a room a prospective investor, "oh hello, I represent a rugby club that went under leaving a trial of unpaid debts and we are planning to start again and may well do the same again, now how much money do you want to squander?................................................................why did they just run out of the room?"

[longlivethecrumbie]

A 2 league Premiership would be a terrible idea imo. It would just be basically the same 12 teams in each league every year with most likely the same 2 swapping places every season,no thanks!

Cast your mind back, Scott - it was that way for a while with the teams rotating being Leeds, Bristol and Worcester.