"Canon Arm" Technique

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Hot_Charlie
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Farmboy wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 12:35 pm Double movement would be my call because of the propulsion after the hand touching the ground
In the video he puts his hand down about 3 times! :smt003
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Grimlish wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:04 pm
Can't find any law against deliberately going to ground
Which is why I said it’s what I remember (from playing long ago). However the laws do say clearly that rugby is a game intended to be played on the feet.
And if they do deliberately go to ground then surely they need to release the ball and pick it up again, which doesn't happen here?
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by TomWeston »

The other Irish province trick is for a player to arrive late, headlong into the ruck, slightly to one side and then to swing a foot behind the players on the ground, obstructing the SH from picking up the ball and then collapsing on him, facilitating a counter ruck. Surely if you can’t put hands behind the ball you can’t put a foot behind it either.
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by BarmyBamford »

It could / should be called crawling and that’s not allowed.
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by jgriffin »

BarmyBamford wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 4:53 pm It could / should be called crawling and that’s not allowed.
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mol2
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by mol2 »

I have long argued that once you go to ground, whether when tackled (full or tap) or simply slip, you must immediately present and release the ball. No hand on top of it, no crawling, no being dragged forwards by supporting players.

Presentation is putting it behind you or touching it down for a try. Without moving from your position on the filed.
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Offside »

The problem with the laws currently is they talk about being off your feet. You could argue the is technique thd players are still on their feet and most of the time mainly supporting their own body weight or with another player latching on doing so. The best option would be to amend the laws to state that any player who touches the ground is out of play and must retreat to behind the back foot of any tackle, Mail or ruck before re entering or they are obstructing play and it is a penalty. This stops players going beyond the ball at rucks and intentionally arching over rucks to stop the counter ruck too. Sealing off only seems to be called at the beginning of a ruck with the first player arriving not this lying over to stop a counter ruck which is very common now.
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Old Hob »

Offside wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:51 am The problem with the laws currently is they talk about being off your feet. You could argue the is technique thd players are still on their feet and most of the time mainly supporting their own body weight or with another player latching on doing so. The best option would be to amend the laws to state that any player who touches the ground is out of play and must retreat to behind the back foot of any tackle, Mail or ruck before re entering or they are obstructing play and it is a penalty. This stops players going beyond the ball at rucks and intentionally arching over rucks to stop the counter ruck too. Sealing off only seems to be called at the beginning of a ruck with the first player arriving not this lying over to stop a counter ruck which is very common now.
Or, as many on here have often said, bring back rucking as it should be played: players on their feet heeling the ball - players on the ground are out of the game.
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daktari
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by daktari »

Old Hob wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:07 am
Offside wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:51 am The problem with the laws currently is they talk about being off your feet. You could argue the is technique thd players are still on their feet and most of the time mainly supporting their own body weight or with another player latching on doing so. The best option would be to amend the laws to state that any player who touches the ground is out of play and must retreat to behind the back foot of any tackle, Mail or ruck before re entering or they are obstructing play and it is a penalty. This stops players going beyond the ball at rucks and intentionally arching over rucks to stop the counter ruck too. Sealing off only seems to be called at the beginning of a ruck with the first player arriving not this lying over to stop a counter ruck which is very common now.
Or, as many on here have often said, bring back rucking as it should be played: players on their feet heeling the ball - players on the ground are out of the game.
if the refs just applied the laws we wouldn't have this mess.
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Tiglon
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Tiglon »

As others have said, the tackle isn't complete until a knee is on the ground. Being off feet etc only applies in specific situations e.g. ruck. A player on the ground in open play is only specified as out of the game if he does not have the ball.

It's a bit of an anomaly where the law on being off feet (body supported by anything other than feet) is a different definition to being tackled (knee on the ground). There's nothing in the off feet law that applies to a player being tackled, and there's nothing in the being tackled law that references being off feet. Consequently, the player is off his feet, but not tackled and is entitled to get up and resume play.

Is intentionally going off your feet while being tackled against the spirit and principle of the laws? Yes, so could be potentially penalised under this. However, I don't think World Rugby will go down that route unless they think it's dangerous, and I'm not convinced it's as dangerous as the Saffa pundits are making it out to be. A lot of hyperbole there.
mightymouse
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by mightymouse »

Well if the law makers are true to form .. once a couple of arms have been broken and a shoulder or two dislocated they will ban tackling a player whose arm is in the ground!!!
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by mol2 »

Any part of you other than your feet are on the ground and you are out of the game.

If that’s in a ruck, you must roll away if you are in front of the ball, irrespective of if your side is in possession.

No more of this being on all fours ahead of the ball. By all means drive over but if you put a hand down then you get out and re enter from behind. This will reduce head contact significantly as those competing at the ruck won’t be met by someone guarding the ball in a position like a sprinter in the blocks, sticking their head out in front to prevent a legitimate tackle/drive and milk a red card if the opposition try and do so,
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Rugbygramps »

Old rugby adage. If you’re off your feet your out of the game
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by mol2 »

They need to specify that off feet means touching down with anythiother than your feet.
Knee, hand or back side should be irrelevant.

Then release, get up before playing on or regathering the ball.
Yes it would mean the tap tackle will be treated the same as a full tackle but that's the price for ending the "cheating" and will make the game safer with no planted arms and head 18" off the ground shielding the ball. Proper rucking will return.
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Re: "Canon Arm" Technique

Post by Farmboy »

WR actually define as off feet as when any part of the body touches the ground but then a tackle is complete when knee touches the ground, a contradiction. As the grounding of the hand is planned in most cases the ball is presented quickly as per laws.
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