LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

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markharbtiger
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by markharbtiger »

trendylfj wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:59 am My only reservation with the LI bandwagon is can we really afford them? It is not so long ago that we had to be bailed out by a couple of very important people to the club and I do not want to see us having to try to do it again. I read not all that long ago that there were 5 clubs at risk at the start of the last season and 3 of the 5 have now gone and we were number 4 in that list (before anyone asks - NO - I don't have the link). We don't HAVE to spend up to the cap unless we can afford it but I do trust AP to keep us in check.

I wonder now what the situation is with Watson???? I believe that he was looking at 2 clubs, LI and Sarries and now LI have gone and Sarries have now retained Maitland I wonder if he really will be staying with us at a salary we can afford

You make some excellent points trendylfj. I think all we can do is hope those in charge aren't over-spending.
I am more concerned what we'll do to make up for fewer home games which must place a big hit on overall income. Don't know how much we generate for a home game, but it will have dropped by 25% without 3 teams visiting MWWR for 2023-24.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by RagingBull »

Tom and Scott did also say the 13 million would help sort our future out.

Speculation on us right now seems based entirely on the fact that Tom and Scott was vocal on the matter

The club are clearly confident in spending up to the cap.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by Hot_Charlie »

RagingBull wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:51 pm Speculation on us right now seems based entirely on the fact that Tom and Scott was vocal on the matter
Speculation is entirely due to a "one liner" in the EGM calling notice suggesting that administration may have been the result if the entirely voluntary cash injection offer had been rejected by members.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by dunc »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:49 am
Hot_Charlie wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:31 am Quite. I think the demise of Irish could actually be bad news for Watson. There's so very good "value for money" back 3 players now available - Loader probably being the most attractive.

I wonder if LI folding increases his chances of ending up in France post RWC?
That’s so key regarding the amount of quality back 3 players available. Yes Watson is high quality but as long as he is selected for England he is going to be away for large chunks of the season. Anyone who employs him next season is not going to see him till November and he’ll missing again during February, and March. Surely the sensible decision is to look for someone slightly short of his level but available all season.

As a slight aside did I see Chesnan Kolbe had turned down a multi million rand contract to return to South Africa
What is this obsession with having people available year round. We have a squad capable of seeing us through the season and getting us into contention in knockout rugby. This is where we were found wanting this year. What we really need now is a 23 that is capable to come together a few times a year to win those big games and compete with the likes of Saracens, Leinster, Stormers and La Rochelle.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by Rugbygramps »

dunc wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:01 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:49 am
Hot_Charlie wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:31 am Quite. I think the demise of Irish could actually be bad news for Watson. There's so very good "value for money" back 3 players now available - Loader probably being the most attractive.

I wonder if LI folding increases his chances of ending up in France post RWC?
That’s so key regarding the amount of quality back 3 players available. Yes Watson is high quality but as long as he is selected for England he is going to be away for large chunks of the season. Anyone who employs him next season is not going to see him till November and he’ll missing again during February, and March. Surely the sensible decision is to look for someone slightly short of his level but available all season.

As a slight aside did I see Chesnan Kolbe had turned down a multi million rand contract to return to South Africa
What is this obsession with having people available year round. We have a squad capable of seeing us through the season and getting us into contention in knockout rugby. This is where we were found wanting this year. What we really need now is a 23 that is capable to come together a few times a year to win those big games and compete with the likes of Saracens, Leinster, Stormers and La Rochelle.
Not so much an obsession, more an observation in terms a player such as Watson demands top dollar whilst being unavailable for a third of the season. In an environment where there is a salary cap, and a position where there are plenty of options, unlike say a tight head prop, the contract has to take these absences into account , otherwise it ceases o be value for money, a phrase I dislike in sport, but that is a modern day reality
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by sam16111986 »

RagingBull wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:51 pm Tom and Scott did also say the 13 million would help sort our future out.

Speculation on us right now seems based entirely on the fact that Tom and Scott was vocal on the matter

The club are clearly confident in spending up to the cap.
Agreed.

It also came after a period where we didn't have a home game for two months. The club is run as a business, if you take away it's earning capabilities then cashflow is an issue. Same for most businesses. It's why we struggled and were up front about the amount we struggled over the Covid period and when we had empty stadiums.

The Ruck are just feeding off the LI position with the most basic level of journalism possible. Tigers and Chiefs have had cash injections they must be the next to go.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by TigerXV »

markharbtiger wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:17 pm
TigerXV wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:28 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:26 pm

And I don’t think they ever would. For me it’s between Sarries and us, Goode and Maitland staying make us favourites.
As for Irish I did read that their players had been talking to other clubs from a couple of weeks ago, so it would depend on what cap is available and where we are in negotiations with other incoming players.
With 3 Australian sides still in super rugby it may be Mckellar is planning to bring some players over but they could still be in the early stages of talks and if the right player became available via the situation with Irish that could change
I think the the Watson deal has been done and dusted for a while now - he's staying
How do you know? There has been nothing announced and the only indication was he was not on the list of those leaving.
Can't say, but I had a conversation with a very interested party (at another club) who told me he is staying - obviously until it is announced who knows if I was told the truth but would not expect this source to lie. The fact he has not been announced by another club as arriving gives strength to what I was told
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by ay2oh »

markharbtiger wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:30 pm
trendylfj wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:59 am My only reservation with the LI bandwagon is can we really afford them? It is not so long ago that we had to be bailed out by a couple of very important people to the club and I do not want to see us having to try to do it again. I read not all that long ago that there were 5 clubs at risk at the start of the last season and 3 of the 5 have now gone and we were number 4 in that list (before anyone asks - NO - I don't have the link). We don't HAVE to spend up to the cap unless we can afford it but I do trust AP to keep us in check.

I wonder now what the situation is with Watson???? I believe that he was looking at 2 clubs, LI and Sarries and now LI have gone and Sarries have now retained Maitland I wonder if he really will be staying with us at a salary we can afford

You make some excellent points trendylfj. I think all we can do is hope those in charge aren't over-spending.
I am more concerned what we'll do to make up for fewer home games which must place a big hit on overall income. Don't know how much we generate for a home game, but it will have dropped by 25% without 3 teams visiting MWWR for 2023-24.
Income won’t drop by 25% as central revenue and Tv money now being divided by 10 teams not 13. Also having a full strength team for all premiership games may put some numbers on our gates.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by jgriffin »

sam16111986 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:21 pm
RagingBull wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:51 pm Tom and Scott did also say the 13 million would help sort our future out.

Speculation on us right now seems based entirely on the fact that Tom and Scott was vocal on the matter

The club are clearly confident in spending up to the cap.
Agreed.

It also came after a period where we didn't have a home game for two months. The club is run as a business, if you take away it's earning capabilities then cashflow is an issue. Same for most businesses. It's why we struggled and were up front about the amount we struggled over the Covid period and when we had empty stadiums.

The Ruck are just feeding off the LI position with the most basic level of journalism possible. Tigers and Chiefs have had cash injections they must be the next to go.
Tigers are now in a better position than Chiefs AFAIK. Women's rugby is currently a cash drain, but may help in the future to a small extent as it becomes even more popular.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by ABClub »

jgriffin wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:00 pm Tigers are now in a better position than Chiefs AFAIK. Women's rugby is currently a cash drain, but may help in the future to a small extent as it becomes even more popular.
This has started happening in cricket from talking to folk in the game. I used to do some freelance data analysis working alongside a few analysts that went onto work as journalists or with teams. Though I've since moved away from it, I'm still in touch with a few old colleagues and we were discussing this recently.

The massive growth in the women's game has not only brought that entirely new market but has also brought more women into the demographic watching men's cricket as well as men watching the women's game. This has apparently opened up interest from entirely new sponsors.

An issue for cricket with sponsorship and advertising was that whilst it was targeting a demographic with money and time to spend it (a large proportion of the English market was middle class and middle aged gents for instance) it was also a fairly narrow demographic.

The growth in the women's game has apparently grown the demographic watching both which is helping with advertising. It's especially been the case in Australia where they professionalised their women's game early and brilliantly. It was also the case for the Hundred in England and more recently the WPL in India.

As sport moves towards a streaming model having greater reach for advertising like that might get more vital as well.

It's from a different sport and maybe a discussion for another thread I accept. Apologies to mods if viewed as derailing. I just think it's interesting that we're seeing what you allude to happening in practice now.
Last edited by ABClub on Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by sk 88 »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:59 pm
RagingBull wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:51 pm Speculation on us right now seems based entirely on the fact that Tom and Scott was vocal on the matter
Speculation is entirely due to a "one liner" in the EGM calling notice suggesting that administration may have been the result if the entirely voluntary cash injection offer had been rejected by members.
And which legally they were required to say. Quite clearly a capital injection versus further borrowing minimises the risk of administration. It was a well worded statement for its purpose, the annoyance is that people who seemingly didn't read it (like poor quality journalists & other club's fans) state confidently things it categorically did not state!
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by Rugbygramps »

My memory isn’t what it was, but sure I remember reading that there were 4000 members who had taken up the option to include the ladies matches, and to make as many as possible double headers.
Even though there will be no added ticket revenue, match day revenue should increase and new fans will be attracted, win/win for all parties
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

TigerXV wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:29 pm
markharbtiger wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:17 pm
TigerXV wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:28 pm

I think the the Watson deal has been done and dusted for a while now - he's staying
How do you know? There has been nothing announced and the only indication was he was not on the list of those leaving.
Can't say, but I had a conversation with a very interested party (at another club) who told me he is staying - obviously until it is announced who knows if I was told the truth but would not expect this source to lie. The fact he has not been announced by another club as arriving gives strength to what I was told
That source adds to what I think is a quite long list of reasons he is likely staying.

1 - as above not listed on the leavers list
2 - Potter leaving means that only Simmons and Watson who have started on the wing for us in the prem are here next year, it is highly likely we would want to make sure of keeping one, so given we let the one in contract leave suggests we are more confident of the other one
3 - we have a long record of delaying announcements till when we want to release information, take OHC, he was announced months after we signed him, so lack of announcement really doesn't suggest it's not signed
4 - other destination rumors for Watson have dried up, from him touring Castre to Sarries looking at using a central contract to get him, yet once Potter leaving us became rumored, all of a sudden Watson rumours dissappeared.
5 - Lack of links to LI back 3 players, Arundell & Loader have been linked to other clubs, basically since LI were given a deadline, including Saracens (who were if rumours are to be believed the only other English team in the running for Watson). We were confirmed by Wigglesworth to be attempting to get him to sign. If that had failed surely we'd be a frontrunner in the rumours for a Loader or Arundell type player.

Add those to inside rumours like you who is saying that other clubs are giving up on getting him, for me that means it's surely at least 80-90% he's already signed on the dotted line
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by TigerXV »

ABClub wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:24 pm
jgriffin wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:00 pm Tigers are now in a better position than Chiefs AFAIK. Women's rugby is currently a cash drain, but may help in the future to a small extent as it becomes even more popular.
This has started happening in cricket from talking to folk in the game. I used to do some freelance data analysis working alongside a few analysts that went onto work as journalists or with teams. Though I've since moved away from it, I'm still in touch with a few old colleagues and we were discussing this recently.

The massive growth in the women's game has not only brought that entirely new market but has also brought more women into the demographic watching men's cricket as well as men watching the women's game. This has apparently opened up interest from entirely new sponsors.

An issue for cricket with sponsorship and advertising was that whilst it was targeting a demographic with money and time to spend it (a large proportion of the English market was middle class and middle aged gents for instance) it was also a fairly narrow demographic.

The growth in the women's game has apparently grown the demographic watching both which is helping with advertising. It's especially been the case in Australia where they professionalised their women's game early and brilliantly. It was also the case for the Hundred in England and more recently the WPL in India.

As sport moves towards a streaming model having greater reach for advertising like that might get more vital as well.

It's from a different sport and maybe a discussion for another thread I accept. Apologies to mods if viewed as derailing. I just think it's interesting that we're seeing what you allude to happening in practice now.
v interesting - thanks for the heads up post. My better half is now watching men's rugby and goes to WR/watches men's/women's games on TV as a consequence of daughter playing the game. She would never have been interested 3 years ago.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 Squad and transfers thread part 2: The Lion, the Wig and the Wardrobe

Post by markharbtiger »

ay2oh wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:48 pm
markharbtiger wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:30 pm
trendylfj wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:59 am My only reservation with the LI bandwagon is can we really afford them? It is not so long ago that we had to be bailed out by a couple of very important people to the club and I do not want to see us having to try to do it again. I read not all that long ago that there were 5 clubs at risk at the start of the last season and 3 of the 5 have now gone and we were number 4 in that list (before anyone asks - NO - I don't have the link). We don't HAVE to spend up to the cap unless we can afford it but I do trust AP to keep us in check.

I wonder now what the situation is with Watson???? I believe that he was looking at 2 clubs, LI and Sarries and now LI have gone and Sarries have now retained Maitland I wonder if he really will be staying with us at a salary we can afford

You make some excellent points trendylfj. I think all we can do is hope those in charge aren't over-spending.
I am more concerned what we'll do to make up for fewer home games which must place a big hit on overall income. Don't know how much we generate for a home game, but it will have dropped by 25% without 3 teams visiting MWWR for 2023-24.
Income won’t drop by 25% as central revenue and Tv money now being divided by 10 teams not 13. Also having a full strength team for all premiership games may put some numbers on our gates.
Ay2oh - my fault as I was talking about income direct from gates at games (there being fewer games). I have no idea what the amount of TV money (or central money) is and how different dividing by 10 rather than 13 makes - does anyone?
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