Rob Baxter: Exeter boss wants teams to be able to replace red-carded players during games

[TigerCam]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65261316

Does he have a point? On first reflections, maybe he does

[Rugbygramps]

The system currency in place in super pacific rugby, which World rugby are looking to introduce for the World Cup seems right to me.
As I understand it Foul play takes place and a yellow card is issued. During that 10 minutes the card is the reviewed by the TMO who decides if that is the right call, or if the card should be upgraded to red. If yellow is correct, then player returns after 10 minutes. If upgraded to red, the player stays off the field for 20 minutes, and can then be replaced by another player. The carded player cannot return to the field.
Seems to me that the offending players team is punished, but the risk of wrong decisions is negated.

Personally I’m all in favour.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

The 20min Red, then replacement is probably the answer.
The review for a potential Red will also help with a) reducing ridiculous Reds & b) Speeding up the game.

[GB72]

How does it work for front row, you have a player that gets carded with no available replacement so after 20 minutes you get unopposed scrums (that could benefit a team getting hammered in set plays) and they also get to stack another area of the pitch with the player that they bring on.

[GETHIN EXILE]

The only danger is that a team have a player who starts the game and purposely injures the opposition playmaker and then is replaced by a better player after the 20 minute period. Cynical plays like this will happen. Currently the punishment is correct and teams need to manage behavior better

[wigworth]

The only danger is that a team have a player who starts the game and purposely injures the opposition playmaker and then is replaced by a better player after the 20 minute period. Cynical plays like this will happen. Currently the punishment is correct and teams need to manage behavior better

I don't think this is necessarily true, in the NFL if a player is ejected from the game (the equivalent of a red card) they can be replaced immediately and despite this quite lax ruling compared to rugby the incidence of player ejections is much lower than red cards in rugby. There was an instance of this type of behaviour about 15 years ago but it was very severely punished and has not happened since.

Having thought about it a bit more I would add, if the front end punishment might be less(less impact in the game itself) for an instance as you suggest you could severely increase the ramifications afterwards, any length of ban if the act was deemed to be purposely malicious would be very harshly punished.

[tigerburnie]

I think Baxter knows his end is nigh and will spout any amount of dross as a smoke screen, either that or he can't handle the scrumpy/

[Rugbygramps]

Maybe it’s just me, but as soon as something like this is muted, which imho would be a step forward, people immediately find fault with it, rather than looking at the positives.
Taking out the playmaker do people really believe that happens.

Going to uncontested scrums will remain as it is, if that happens due to a card you also loose another player.

[Pellsey]

The system currency in place in super pacific rugby, which World rugby are looking to introduce for the World Cup seems right to me.
As I understand it Foul play takes place and a yellow card is issued. During that 10 minutes the card is the reviewed by the TMO who decides if that is the right call, or if the card should be upgraded to red. If yellow is correct, then player returns after 10 minutes. If upgraded to red, the player stays off the field for 20 minutes, and can then be replaced by another player. The carded player cannot return to the field.
Seems to me that the offending players team is punished, but the risk of wrong decisions is negated.

Personally I’m all in favour.

I do like the idea of this except for one thing - isn't the TMO supposed to be actually watching the game rather that looking at footage?!

[Rugbygramps]

The system currency in place in super pacific rugby, which World rugby are looking to introduce for the World Cup seems right to me.
As I understand it Foul play takes place and a yellow card is issued. During that 10 minutes the card is the reviewed by the TMO who decides if that is the right call, or if the card should be upgraded to red. If yellow is correct, then player returns after 10 minutes. If upgraded to red, the player stays off the field for 20 minutes, and can then be replaced by another player. The carded player cannot return to the field.
Seems to me that the offending players team is punished, but the risk of wrong decisions is negated.

Personally I’m all in favour.

I do like the idea of this except for one thing - isn't the TMO supposed to be actually watching the game rather that looking at footage?!

It is a very good point, and I think I read somewhere about there being an extra official. The other thing maybe that there are that many naturally occurring breaks in play that there should be time in that 8 minute window to examine the incident, they aren’t having to discuss it with someone else or get the replay on the big screen.

[Pellsey]

I do like the idea of this except for one thing - isn't the TMO supposed to be actually watching the game rather that looking at footage?!

It is a very good point, and I think I read somewhere about there being an extra official. The other thing maybe that there are that many naturally occurring breaks in play that there should be time in that 8 minute window to examine the incident, they aren’t having to discuss it with someone else or get the replay on the big screen.

If there is another TMO to assist, then I am all for it. Another TMO could also pick up on stuff the first TMO misses!! Or would that just cause even more stoppages !!

[GB72]

I do like the idea in the main, need to give the idea of having a full 15 on the pitch after 20 minutes some thought. I can think of examples of where that appears the equitable outcome and some where it does not.

I would want the official to be getting raw footage of the incident however and not one with any commentary on it but, then again, I think that is what the TMO should get now and no official should be able to hear any outside influence.

[wigworth]

I do like the idea of this except for one thing - isn't the TMO supposed to be actually watching the game rather that looking at footage?!

It is a very good point, and I think I read somewhere about there being an extra official. The other thing maybe that there are that many naturally occurring breaks in play that there should be time in that 8 minute window to examine the incident, they aren’t having to discuss it with someone else or get the replay on the big screen.

If there is another TMO to assist, then I am all for it. Another TMO could also pick up on stuff the first TMO misses!! Or would that just cause even more stoppages !!

I thought people didn't like it when Austin played backup TMO.

[Nofrontteeth]

I do like the idea in the main, need to give the idea of having a full 15 on the pitch after 20 minutes some thought. I can think of examples of where that appears the equitable outcome and some where it does not.

I would want the official to be getting raw footage of the incident however and not one with any commentary on it but, then again, I think that is what the TMO should get now and no official should be able to hear any outside influence.

So what's poor old Austin going to do then?

[Rugbygramps]

Who knows
I would imagine in the World Cup there would be no shortage of officials, maybe even using the central broadcast hub for them to be based at.

People will always have suspicions over new initiatives, and the what if this or what if that questions will be asked.

IMO this is in response to a real problem that exists in the game. Off the top of my head there have been 3 red cards in 3 high profile games fairly recently, Slade, Steward, Mercer, all of which were rescinded, all of which potentially had a direct effect on the final result .
Anything that minimises that must be looked at seriously