English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

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CharlieTheTiger
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English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by CharlieTheTiger »

Would be interested in people's thoughts to the format of rugby currently.

As we enter a weekend of European Rugby the structure gets challenged again by the newspapers but I have to say I like this idea of 2 groups with 2/3rds of the group going through.

I actually think the biggest issue to the domestic rugby schedule. I would like to see an approach that has emphasis of creating big games. By having local derby weekends (most teams have at least 2 derbies in the league) and also an encouragement to look to use big grounds. Also double header games in big stadiums could be an idea to get fans in.

Also my thoughts on during the internationals the Premiership Cup should be expanded to have more games and again an emphasis on local derbies. I am sure all tigers fans would be excited to see Tigers and Saints 2nd strings go head to head in the prem cup. Also to introduce a plate competition after the group stage to make sure young players are getting opportunities. There would be a need to move the U20 Six nations to another part of the season and not run at the same time as the main men's six nations.

Another thought I had is why can't the ref radio be on an app where you pay a yearly, monthly or by game subscription?
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by Scuttle »

CharlieTheTiger wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:24 am Would be interested in people's thoughts to the format of rugby currently.

As we enter a weekend of European Rugby the structure gets challenged again by the newspapers but I have to say I like this idea of 2 groups with 2/3rds of the group going through.

I actually think the biggest issue to the domestic rugby schedule. I would like to see an approach that has emphasis of creating big games. By having local derby weekends (most teams have at least 2 derbies in the league) and also an encouragement to look to use big grounds. Also double header games in big stadiums could be an idea to get fans in.

Also my thoughts on during the internationals the Premiership Cup should be expanded to have more games and again an emphasis on local derbies. I am sure all tigers fans would be excited to see Tigers and Saints 2nd strings go head to head in the prem cup. Also to introduce a plate competition after the group stage to make sure young players are getting opportunities. There would be a need to move the U20 Six nations to another part of the season and not run at the same time as the main men's six nations.

Another thought I had is why can't the ref radio be on an app where you pay a yearly, monthly or by game subscription?
Always going to be an interesting debate. I am torn on the European Cup model this year; I have been guilty of just accepting it abd being OK with it, but when I think about it more deeply it does seem daft that a team that only wins one fame in the "griup" stage goes through to the round of 16.....it smacks of income generation by the authorities...to me at least. The usual group system sets a proper challenge so only the best get through.

On the PRC I think it worth exploring whether it could be expanded to include Championship sides. Increase their exposure, maybe get them bigger gates (accepting there may be ground size issues to overcome but as PRC maybe not) integrate the game more.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by LittleBigG »

CharlieTheTiger wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:24 am Would be interested in people's thoughts to the format of rugby currently.

As we enter a weekend of European Rugby the structure gets challenged again by the newspapers but I have to say I like this idea of 2 groups with 2/3rds of the group going through.

I actually think the biggest issue to the domestic rugby schedule. I would like to see an approach that has emphasis of creating big games. By having local derby weekends (most teams have at least 2 derbies in the league) and also an encouragement to look to use big grounds. Also double header games in big stadiums could be an idea to get fans in.

Also my thoughts on during the internationals the Premiership Cup should be expanded to have more games and again an emphasis on local derbies. I am sure all tigers fans would be excited to see Tigers and Saints 2nd strings go head to head in the prem cup. Also to introduce a plate competition after the group stage to make sure young players are getting opportunities. There would be a need to move the U20 Six nations to another part of the season and not run at the same time as the main men's six nations.

Another thought I had is why can't the ref radio be on an app where you pay a yearly, monthly or by game subscription?
I agree about the format of the European cup! I really like the two mini-leagues where teams don't play in "pools" - it largely mitigates against the situation where you end up with a pool with two particularly weak teams in it and the other two both qualifying with high seedings, although I much preferred the "last 16" to be a home and away leg like it was last year. It also makes it very straightforward to see "at a glance" what the matchups will be

If I'm honest, I dislike the "big game" nonsense - there are many great rivalries going back decades and I feel that singling out one or two detracts and the whole thing feels very "artificial". I would be incredibly disgruntled if my club were to move one of the home games away from Welford Road (valid reasons, such as "we're demolishing the stand for redevelopment", excepted...). Whenever we've played in other stadium, even (especially?) at Twickenham, the atmosphere always feels a bit "flat", whereas a smaller crowd at Welford road would be buzzing

The Premiership Cup is a bit of an elephant in the room - it needs to decide what it wants to be more than anything! Is it a development competition, etc etc. (if it is, put actual restrictions on who can play, rather than just funny handshakes and tacit agreements)
Personally I'd love to see a FA Cup style straight knockout competition that involves some of the Championship clubs too (to make it up to 16?) These could either be sorted out by a short qualification round or based on league positions the year before. Unfortunately, unlike football, I feel it would be far too unsafe to include clubs from lower leagues. Romance and dreams are being purged, and sterile, identikit templates favoured - who doesn't love a story of (albeit unlikely) giant killing!

(Dear god... half of that was very much "old person shouts at cloud" ...does this officially mean I'm an old fart now? I'll go and ask the RFU where my blazer is :smt005 )
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by GB72 »

I agree to a certain extent about the big games. It works in London as you have enough people who will go for the day out on top of the traditional supporters. Not sure I can see many clubs outside of London being able to bring enough fans to justify the larger venue let alone fill it.

That said, I do remember Newcastle playing at St James' Park and that was worthwhile.

Assuming the pitch could take it, I would like to see double headers more at MWWW with the women playing first then the men. That would bump up the support for the womens' team, get people in the bars etc earlier and, hopefully, just increase the general matchday revenue for the club.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by Hot_Charlie »

The Prem used to start with the Twickenham double header too.

I get the idea of creating "big games", but then as others have said, could you imagine either Saints or Tigers wanting to take the derby away from CFG or MWWR. In Tigers case there probably isn't a big enough stadium within 60 miles that would make a move from MWWR worth it; less so for Saints perhaps. Bath took game to HQ pre-Covid but that was almost a disaster.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by LittleBigG »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:13 pm The Prem used to start with the Twickenham double header too.

I get the idea of creating "big games", but then as others have said, could you imagine either Saints or Tigers wanting to take the derby away from CFG or MWWR. In Tigers case there probably isn't a big enough stadium within 60 miles that would make a move from MWWR worth it; less so for Saints perhaps. Bath took game to HQ pre-Covid but that was almost a disaster.
Yeah, they threw away their home advantage against us - and lost :smt003
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by biffer »

Don't like the European cup format. Very difficult for the casual fan to understand.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by GETHIN EXILE »

Some Thoughts:
European cup - has basically been shortened by 1 week this season probably a good idea with regards to player welfare.
Autumn Internationals - there are 3 official weekends for these and players should only be available to international teams from the Monday before the first weekend.
6 Nations - should be played over 5 consecutive weekends players available as above.
PRC - should be under 23's competition 3 rounds during Autumn Internationals, 4th round played 6 nations weekend1, semi finals played 6 nations weekend 3, Final played 6 nations weekend 3, 3 grounds to be on stand by to ensure no home advantage.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by WirralExile »

Regarding the "European Cup" I'm still not sure what the rationale was of including the South African teams. I get that they are already playing in URC, but the logistics of the away fixtures must be a nightmare. Shouldn't their inclusion be caveated with a need to play all games somewhere in Europe? Thankfully Tigers were not grouped with any SA teams this time.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by mol2 »

It’s the European Cup.
What leagues that contribute teams come from is irrelevant other than it is a genuine competition and from a European country.

Personally I would make it for clubs only rather than provinces or representative sides and don’t see a place for Southern Hemisphere sides.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by Tigerbeat »

mol2 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:35 pm It’s the European Cup.
What leagues that contribute teams come from is irrelevant other than it is a genuine competition and from a European country.

Personally I would make it for clubs only rather than provinces or representative sides and don’t see a place for Southern Hemisphere sides.
I thought that the European Cup was renamed the Champions Cup
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Rugbygramps
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by Rugbygramps »

Tigerbeat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:57 pm
mol2 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:35 pm It’s the European Cup.
What leagues that contribute teams come from is irrelevant other than it is a genuine competition and from a European country.

Personally I would make it for clubs only rather than provinces or representative sides and don’t see a place for Southern Hemisphere sides.
I thought that the European Cup was renamed the Champions Cup
It was and it is
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by wigworth »

Tigerbeat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:57 pm
mol2 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:35 pm It’s the European Cup.
What leagues that contribute teams come from is irrelevant other than it is a genuine competition and from a European country.

Personally I would make it for clubs only rather than provinces or representative sides and don’t see a place for Southern Hemisphere sides.
I thought that the European Cup was renamed the Champions Cup
If we are being pedantic the competition is run by the European Professional Club Rugby though.
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by Rugbygramps »

wigworth wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:22 pm
Tigerbeat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:57 pm
mol2 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:35 pm It’s the European Cup.
What leagues that contribute teams come from is irrelevant other than it is a genuine competition and from a European country.

Personally I would make it for clubs only rather than provinces or representative sides and don’t see a place for Southern Hemisphere sides.
I thought that the European Cup was renamed the Champions Cup
If we are being pedantic the competition is run by the European Professional Club Rugby though.
Who invited the South African sides in and renamed it the Heineken Champions Cup.
Don’t get me wrong I’m against and don’t see what brings to the competition other than a lot of unnecessary travel and unwanted injuries playing in unseasonal conditions on poor pitches
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Re: English/ European Rugby Format & Tech Developments

Post by wigworth »

Rugbygramps wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:27 pm
wigworth wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:22 pm
Tigerbeat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:57 pm

I thought that the European Cup was renamed the Champions Cup
If we are being pedantic the competition is run by the European Professional Club Rugby though.
Who invited the South African sides in and renamed it the Heineken Champions Cup.
Don’t get me wrong I’m against and don’t see what brings to the competition other than a lot of unnecessary travel and unwanted injuries playing in unseasonal conditions on poor pitches
My guess would be CVC, whispering in the ears of all the Unions and organisations whom have taken money to try to get all their investments lined up and working together. Given they have a strong hold on European rugby and SA rugby I am sure they are perhaps the driver of this.

Which is what was pretty much admitted by the CEO of Irish rugby in 2020.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4267069
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