Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

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ourla
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Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by ourla »

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921
Bristol Bears director of rugby Pat Lam believes the Premiership’s “flawed” boundary system for academy recruitment is having a detrimental effect on the fortunes of the England team and wants to see wholesale changes to the structure.

“I can tell you now that I’ve been here nearly six years, the system is flawed for young players,” Lam said. “When you look and you ask the question, and I used to always say this when I was back in New Zealand and coaching in Ireland, ‘how is the country that has the most resources, financially and player-wise, not the No1 rugby nation in the world?’ And the problem that you’ve got is that it’s the only country that has a system that has boundaries on young players which is, to me, the biggest problem you’ve got.

“What that means, and I do this is my whole coaching philosophy is that I’m a big believer in bringing through young players, is, and I only recognise this now because the salary cap got dropped to £5m, when you have boundaries, the top 100 schools in the country - let alone the other schools - where are they all? In that top 100, Bristol has two schools in the top 100; Harlequins have 23 schools in the top 100. Ourselves, Bath and Exeter have the least schools.

“If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?
wigworth
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by wigworth »

He is not wrong in that it might limit good players coming through especially if the pipeline of young talent is very good in one region and sparse in another. LI have always had a very good academy do to the the schools in their catchment area, Sale also tend to get decent young players coming from Sedbergh.
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by kpj tiger »

ourla wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:05 pm https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921
Bristol Bears director of rugby Pat Lam believes the Premiership’s “flawed” boundary system for academy recruitment is having a detrimental effect on the fortunes of the England team and wants to see wholesale changes to the structure.

“I can tell you now that I’ve been here nearly six years, the system is flawed for young players,” Lam said. “When you look and you ask the question, and I used to always say this when I was back in New Zealand and coaching in Ireland, ‘how is the country that has the most resources, financially and player-wise, not the No1 rugby nation in the world?’ And the problem that you’ve got is that it’s the only country that has a system that has boundaries on young players which is, to me, the biggest problem you’ve got.

“What that means, and I do this is my whole coaching philosophy is that I’m a big believer in bringing through young players, is, and I only recognise this now because the salary cap got dropped to £5m, when you have boundaries, the top 100 schools in the country - let alone the other schools - where are they all? In that top 100, Bristol has two schools in the top 100; Harlequins have 23 schools in the top 100. Ourselves, Bath and Exeter have the least schools.

“If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?
He does raise a good point but then what do you do about it? If you give clubs free reign then the richest and or most successful clubs will hoover up the best talent anyway. So does this mean we need the RFU to decide which club gets which young players based on the needs of the club or which club the RFU deems has the best environment for the player to thrive in? Or maybe we just go with a draft system like American sports?

For me there isn't a perfect solution there's just different compromises.
RagingBull
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

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What does he mean when he says Quine have done nothing?
Rugbygramps
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by Rugbygramps »

So I’m guessing Tigers will have the likes of Uppingham, Stamford, Oakham, Denstone, Trent College in their catchment area
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by Robespierre »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:41 pm So I’m guessing Tigers will have the likes of Uppingham, Stamford, Oakham, Denstone, Trent College in their catchment area
Rugby school too?
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mightymouse
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by mightymouse »

George Martin was originally at Loughborough Grammar and then I think went to Brooksby

However I didn’t realise that clubs couldn’t choose from whichever school they chose.
It does seem a bit weighted against certain clubs and in favour of London and South East

Perhaps the schools should be allocated evenly irrespective of Geography
mightymouse
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by mightymouse »

I know that Tigers give scholarships to players into certain schools like Leicester Grammar and Deniston so obviously that would be unfair for another club to poach those players that another club had invested in without some recompense
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by Rugbygramps »

mightymouse wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:03 pm I know that Tigers give scholarships to players into certain schools like Leicester Grammar and Deniston so obviously that would be unfair for another club to poach those players that another club had invested in without some recompense
I don’t know how the system works now but it used to be that academy players would be asked to attend certain schools who would work with the academy in terms of making sure timetables allowed attendance at training etc.
Going back in the mists of time Dan Cole was attending Robert Smyth but moved to Queen Elizabeth when awarded an academy contract
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by Tigers86asw »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:41 pm So I’m guessing Tigers will have the likes of Uppingham, Stamford, Oakham, Denstone, Trent College in their catchment area
Norwich, Rugby, Oundle…
Tigers86asw
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by Tigers86asw »

Lots of clubs have pathways all over the country. Saints have lots in Essex for players outside the county. Haileybury provides players for Saints and Quins. Mill Hill’s DoR coaches at the Irish academy out in Reading but their players are from North London down to Southampton.

I understand Lam’s point but the training for academy players is intense and takes years. Not an easy solution.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

It's also not quite as easy to say oh we want these school's picks... most parents may likely want their child to go to the club 20min away not an hour away...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
wigworth
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by wigworth »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:50 pm It's also not quite as easy to say oh we want these school's picks... most parents may likely want their child to go to the club 20min away not an hour away...
I had similar thoughts but I am guessing he is talking more about after they have just left school and are in the academy, which is also maybe where his comment about not doing anything at that stage also comes from.
mightymouse
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by mightymouse »

For Bristol I’m surprised there is not a few rich pickings not only from Somerset but also right down a fair chunk of the M4 corridor and right up north Towards Birmingham .. places like Marlborough and Stowe for example
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Re: Our friend Pat Lam talks about the academy boundary system

Post by RagingBull »

I mean Lam has a sugar daddy so of course he would want to be able to pay any youngster he wants a good chunk of money.

From reading that it’s quite clear that the extra payments to other prem clubs is what’s deterring him since it’s added to the cap
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