Tigers v Bath (H)- Saturday 04th March 2023 - KO 15:00

[Tiglon]

I'm sure this discussion will encourage more people to become referees!

Seriously, a ref makes a mistake and he's "amateurish"? Don't professional players make mistakes? Don't we all make mistakes?

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I'm sure this discussion will encourage more people to become referees!

Seriously, a ref makes a mistake and he's "amateurish"? Don't professional players make mistakes? Don't we all make mistakes?

Its not refs I have a problem with, It's TMO's and the way they are used. If I can freeze frame a video to show a foot clearly in touch how can the TMO not do the same? Their technology will be far supperior to the highlights vid on the premier rugby web site that I used. The amount of thing getting missed is pathetic, the system need sorting so that new or potentially new refs can actually officiate with the confidence of players, coaches and fans.

[Tigerbeat]

I'm sure this discussion will encourage more people to become referees!

Seriously, a ref makes a mistake and he's "amateurish"? Don't professional players make mistakes? Don't we all make mistakes?

Its not refs I have a problem with, It's TMO's and the way they are used. If I can freeze frame a video to show a foot clearly in touch how can the TMO not do the same? Their technology will be far supperior to the highlights vid on the premier rugby web site that I used. The amount of thing getting missed is pathetic, the system need sorting so that new or potentially new refs can actually officiate with the confidence of players, coaches and fans.

The on field decision was try. The camera angle that you see shows the foot crossing the line but does not confirm if it is down. The camera angle required to confirm whether it was down was either not available or was obstructed. There was no conclusive evidence for the try to be over ruled.

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I'm sure this discussion will encourage more people to become referees!

Seriously, a ref makes a mistake and he's "amateurish"? Don't professional players make mistakes? Don't we all make mistakes?

Its not refs I have a problem with, It's TMO's and the way they are used. If I can freeze frame a video to show a foot clearly in touch how can the TMO not do the same? Their technology will be far supperior to the highlights vid on the premier rugby web site that I used. The amount of thing getting missed is pathetic, the system need sorting so that new or potentially new refs can actually officiate with the confidence of players, coaches and fans.

The on field decision was try. The camera angle that you see shows the foot crossing the line but does not confirm if it is down. The camera angle required to confirm whether it was down was either not available or was obstructed. There was no conclusive evidence for the try to be over ruled.

Watch the replay in the hihglights, the foot clearly drags the touch line, I just can't freeze it at quite the right moment. The TMO has frame by frame technology so could.

I'm not really bothered by this perticular incident as it had no affect on the game, but there have been incidents that have affected games. The technology is there to correct tough calls, but it isn't working. IMO.

If refs have to send it upstairs, why have an 'on field' decision. That just skews things from the start of the process.

[Tigerbeat]

Its not refs I have a problem with, It's TMO's and the way they are used. If I can freeze frame a video to show a foot clearly in touch how can the TMO not do the same? Their technology will be far supperior to the highlights vid on the premier rugby web site that I used. The amount of thing getting missed is pathetic, the system need sorting so that new or potentially new refs can actually officiate with the confidence of players, coaches and fans.

The on field decision was try. The camera angle that you see shows the foot crossing the line but does not confirm if it is down. The camera angle required to confirm whether it was down was either not available or was obstructed. There was no conclusive evidence for the try to be over ruled.

If refs have to send it upstairs, why have an 'on field' decision.

The ref has made a decision on seeing the grounding but wanted a check on the phases leading up to it.

[Scott1]

I'm sure this discussion will encourage more people to become referees!

Seriously, a ref makes a mistake and he's "amateurish"? Don't professional players make mistakes? Don't we all make mistakes?

We don't have multiple camera angles and unlimited chances of going back in time for another attempt!

[eastyorkstiger]

was in nz recently and one thing they were on about in cricket was removing the refs on field decision so many times there is not enough evidence to overturn it so it wasnt worth it

[CrumblingTerrace]

It's unreasonable to expect all human error to be removed by the use of assistive technology. That will cost Tigers some weeks and it'll benefit them others.

The technology can't correct tough calls, as you suggest. The humans do that. The technology would need to be automated for that to happen (e.g. sensors on the touchlines), and there sure as heck isn't enough money in Premiership Rugby for that to happen!

[mol2]

For Prem matches covered by TV forward passes could be done by sensors, ball tracking like cricket or simple virtual grid lines.
Harder with in touch as the touch line could be impacted by defender, the ball or even the touch judge.
If a decision goes to the TMO let the TMO decide not take time for the ref to go to the big screen.
Only where the sanction should they discuss.

[TigerFeetSteve]

For Prem matches covered by TV forward passes could be done by sensors, ball tracking like cricket or simple virtual grid lines.
Harder with in touch as the touch line could be impacted by defender, the ball or even the touch judge.
If a decision goes to the TMO let the TMO decide not take time for the ref to go to the big screen.
Only where the sanction should they discuss.

With the smart ball technology they are now trialling, surely they can do the forward pass pretty much immediately?! They can even do it with rules as they are. i.e. the whole hands backwards thing.

Works like this
Ball measures it's relative velocity.
Take the component forward/backwards in the pitch.
Lets say the player is running at speed 5 m/s, the ball will have and sense this is it's velocity prior to the pass.
Player then passes the ball, it then travels 4m/s forwards (ignoring the sideways component)
The player has passed back from their perspective at 1m/s but travels forwards. Fact is though ball is aware what speed it was travelling relative prior to passing and after passing so it is simple to work out. Trickiest bit is telling the ball which side is in possession so it knows forwards and backwards... but crack that (e.g. it looks which players gps it is closest and moving along with) and it's problem solved

[Hot_Charlie]

What happens if the player is running diagonally?

The easiest thing would be for World Rugby to actually simplify the laws (and in the forward pass case ensure the ball travels either perpendicular to the touch line or backwards); anything that needs a 5 minute Youtube video to explain is obviously rubbish to any new fans.

[johnthegriff]

In days gone by the rule was that the ball.had to be passed backwards then somebody in a suit decided that level.was ok and at that point we had discussion and conversation about which way the hands were pointing. Life was so.much simpler when the ref called it forward, there was no point arguing if he said it was forward it was forward the ref was always right. Except of course in a game against Oadby when a brilliant dive pass on the run by me from centre pitch sent our winger away for a certain try only to be called back for forward.. It may be half a century or more ago but it was backwards.

[TigerFeetSteve]

What happens if the player is running diagonally?

If the ball knows its location relative to the pitch it can work out just the forwards/backwards component of the speed. It is simple trigonometry.

That said, simplification of the rules is no bad thing

[LE18]

It would help if clubs were asked to mow grass in 1 mtr strips. (how do they mow plastic though?)

[mol2]

The hands interpretation is waffle tosh.
The pitch is fixed so forwards and backwards relative to the try or centre line is simple enough.

Pitches should be mowed side to side to save referral to sensors. The saints try at the weekend wen 3 or 4 feet forwards looking at the lines and was taken ahead of the player who popped the ball up.