Board plan additional investment in Tigers

[GB72]

OK, I will have a go at some of the benefits of summer rugby:

1. Evening matches after work in the week. Look at the crowds T20 gets for similar matches.
2. Warm afternoons on the terraces are more likely to attract new fans.
3. Far less team sport in the Summer months could attract a better TV deal and even garner some interest for the Championship on TV.
4. Not competing with football for crowds, media inches, social media commentary and TV revenue.
5. A chance to set a global international calendar and plan the season around that to maximise player time at clubs.
6. More chance to get kids to matches in the long school holidays.
7. Matches can form part of a UK summer break as well as Summer trips for European matches.
8. Drier pitches more condusive to running rugby.

[LE18]

Reasons against rugby as a Summer sport.
1. It is too blooming hot, at the top level they will water pitches but lower down there will be injuries on hard grounds.
2. Games interrupted for water breaks.
3. Slump in season ticket sales as in addition to games missed due to work and inconvenient kick off times there will now be at least three weekends affected as most take a 2 week summer holiday.
3. Travel to matches affected as holiday makers flood the motorways and trains at weekends.
4. Problems with pitches as the grass will have only the winter non growing months to recover from usage.
5. It is too blooming hot. Sun in eyes. Sunburn on exposed flesh. It is just not right!

Others have answered most of your points John but in point 1 you mention "lower down", why do lower leagues need to change, they could stay as winter rugby, its only the elite that could change as they need extra cash/support, no need to go full hog.

[GB72]

Reasons against rugby as a Summer sport.
1. It is too blooming hot, at the top level they will water pitches but lower down there will be injuries on hard grounds.
2. Games interrupted for water breaks.
3. Slump in season ticket sales as in addition to games missed due to work and inconvenient kick off times there will now be at least three weekends affected as most take a 2 week summer holiday.
3. Travel to matches affected as holiday makers flood the motorways and trains at weekends.
4. Problems with pitches as the grass will have only the winter non growing months to recover from usage.
5. It is too blooming hot. Sun in eyes. Sunburn on exposed flesh. It is just not right!

Others have answered most of your points John but in point 1 you mention "lower down", why do lower leagues need to change, they could stay as winter rugby, its only the elite that could change as they need extra cash/support, no need to go full hog.

I can see a point in the much lower leagues in that many players are dual sport, rugby in the winter and cricket in the summer and so that means we could lose some players.

Appreciate the pitch issue but then again rugby is played in hot, dry countries and so it cannot be an insurmountable hurdle.

Thinking about it, I can see a big positive. I can see Saturday afternoons at my local club, families out in the sun, barbecue going, great for food and bar takings and just the general atmosphere at the club. Think of the possible uptake in mini and junior rugby as parents are far more willing to attend the Sunday morning tournaments in the warm sun and hang around all day rather than being huddled up in a big coat in the rain in winter.

I am not saying Summer rugby is the answer but I do think it raises enough questions to make it something to consider.

The tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist in me, however, has to think that the RFU may object on the grounds that it would not guarantee as many prime home internationals (you would think that the 6 Nations would fit in around the same time as the rugby championship and be outside of the domestic league season and that there would be room for a post season tour but that may alternate between home and away each year and that could lose the RFU a chunk of income)

[TTRITH]

Others have answered most of your points John but in point 1 you mention "lower down", why do lower leagues need to change, they could stay as winter rugby, its only the elite that could change as they need extra cash/support, no need to go full hog.

Does it not close off the "elite" level if only the Premiership changes it's season. if the Championship season finishes May, but the Premiership ran from March to October, than the Championship club has no income for almost a year?

[mol2]

Sorry, don’t want to spend a sunny summer Saturday watching rugby.

Why should we fit in with the Southern Hemisphere season? Besides rugby is played on soft ground with the irregular bounce and slipping that goes with it.
I would ban artificial pitches and would only permit closed roofs under exception circumstances.
I loathe the Principality stadium with the roof closed, too much echo and sounds like you have a tin bucket on your head.

[GB72]

Sorry, don’t want to spend a sunny summer Saturday watching rugby.

Why should we fit in with the Southern Hemisphere season? Besides rugby is played on soft ground with the irregular bounce and slipping that goes with it.
I would ban artificial pitches and would only permit closed roofs under exception circumstances.
I loathe the Principality stadium with the roof closed, too much echo and sounds like you have a tin bucket on your head.

A fair point but I think it is about more than fitting in with the Southern Hemisphere.

At the moment, rugby cannot afford to support itself, that is the bottom line. How do you change that, there are many suggestions and they all need to be looked at. From my point of view, and it is an opinion that could easily be swayed, is that the tradional season is playing with one hand tied behind its back. Whilst it is hard to accept, football owns the winter. It owns the TV air time, it owns the media, it owns social media and it owns the TV and advertising revenue. Rugby will always be picking up the scraps. By moving the season away from the football season, there is at least a chance that it can pick up some of that which it cannot get at the moment.

I do not think that any of us can deny that rugby players deserve every penny they get at the elite level but we are now in a position where the sport cannot pay them that and can only really afford dramatically less. The only way to increase the revenue in the game is to try and find a bigger audience and that will not happen when competing with football at any level.

[johnthegriff]

I am not aware that 20/20 cricket gets crowds of 20,000. They certainly don't at Grace Rd.
Sunny afternoon in the summer months can involve a day trip out
Where one partner in a family is into rugby there may not be an objection to the match in Winter months but could be if it prevents a trip to a theme park or the sea side.
August a main holiday month clashes with football..
Wasps a badly run club took a leap of faith, thinking they could increase attendance by moving. Moving our game to summer months is a simar leap of faith. Rugby League does not get bigger crowds than Tigers.
Tigers over the years has made money which has been reinvested in land and stands etc. We have been hit by lockdown and need time to recover but we are still a viable business.

[sk 88]

If only there was a similar sport that had tried switching its season and saw no change that we could look at and possibly learn from

Almost as if what matters is the quality of the sport itself and the structure it is played in makes it engaging enough to attract people's attention regularly regardless of other attractions.

[Ian Cant]

Lots of fans will be on holiday in the Summer, quite a few fans I know play cricket so are likely to drift away then there will be no Christmas and New Year’s holiday bumper crowds.
Then there’s The Six Nations! Cannot imagine that in the Summer but on the other hand putting those internationals at the end of the Autumn/Winter Premiership season would mean clubs and fans having their internationals available.
With only 10 home games in the Premiership clubs should be able to play their internationals therefore promoting the game more; especially those like us where youngsters want to see Freddie Steward, JVP, Watson, Chessum, Reffel, Henderson, Montoya, Weise and all our players play club rugby.
Then there’s the TV money! The 100, T20, Test matches, Golf, Wimbledon Tennis mean there will be less to go around. The days of Tigers competing with City to get fans has long gone, particularly since both teams are no longer allowed to play on the same day!
I suppose the only way of knowing if Summer rugby would work is for all clubs to do a survey of season ticket holders, occasional fans etc.

[Hot_Charlie]

OK, I will have a go at some of the benefits of summer rugby:

1. Evening matches after work in the week. Look at the crowds T20 gets for similar matches.
2. Warm afternoons on the terraces are more likely to attract new fans.
3. Far less team sport in the Summer months could attract a better TV deal and even garner some interest for the Championship on TV.
4. Not competing with football for crowds, media inches, social media commentary and TV revenue.
5. A chance to set a global international calendar and plan the season around that to maximise player time at clubs.
6. More chance to get kids to matches in the long school holidays.
7. Matches can form part of a UK summer break as well as Summer trips for European matches.
8. Drier pitches more condusive to running rugby.

1.But I'm spending my money elsewhere in the summer, including cricket.
2. Maybe. Also maybe encouraging all day benders in the hot weather.
3. Far more people going away. Miss-time your summer holiday and you've missed 2 home games.
4. Lets be realistic. We aren't anyway.
5. So for 6-8 weeks of the summer (Aug-Sep) we play without our international players as they compete what's now the SH international window.
6. Never had a problem bringing kids between September and May. They want to do other stuff in the summer. Normally involving water.
7. Where are we going this summer, love? Toulon. Then Glasgow.
8. The mythical running rugby. It'd still be the same pragmatic rugby, just with the ballers being as inconsistent as ever but getting mildly excited when an exciting team (Harlequins, obvs) manage on the off chance to win the league once every decade or so. The list of "exciting" and "running rugby" teams to win the Prem (or anything, bar Super "the more points on the scoreboard obviously = better" Rugby) is very small. And long may it continue. Because all you get if you make it all "running rugby" will be an eventual metamorphosis into rugby league.

[TigerFeetSteve]

With the 3rd i.e. D day for the vote I'll bring the topic back.

Let's see if the cashflow issue gets approved or rejected by the shareholders and if there's going to be a club to play Winter/Summer rugby.

Really hope it gets approved quickly!

[Tiglon]

Happy to move rugby to the summer if that makes a difference, but I just don't see that it would. Fine, there's no football to compete with for a couple of months, but there are plenty of other competing leisure activities at that time of year.

Paying players less seems the obvious answer, but do you then lose the stars to France and consequently have lower attendances?

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

No Football in the Summer apart from the Euro's & World Cups, plus the gap between seasons is wafer thin these days.
Professional players should be able to cope with bad weather, less time in the gym maybe?

[ads]

I think the earlier point about the big money end of season games being held currently end of spring/beginning of summer is a good one. Going to watch the European cup or Premiership final in October could be awful. That said seasons are changing so it could be fine. As long as all European finals are held in the south of France we'll be alreet!!....

I go to a few games of 20/20 cricket over the summer, I live in Leeds so go to Headingly. Most games get a decent crowd but it's certainly not 20,000 every game. Maybe something like 5000 for games against the likes of Leicestershire, but sell out for the Roses matches.

[GB72]

I suppose all I would add is that the big crowds are unique to a few clubs and even that is not always enough to cover the costs. Clearly the exisitng model is not working and so all options should be looked at to find a way of growing the game, increasing revenues and getting people through the turnstyles at all grounds and not just Welford Road. Not saying a move of the season is the answer but it should be considered along with any other options or I fear that the end result will be less teams, perhaps even franchised rugby with central contracts.