6 Nations 2023

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fentiger
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by fentiger »

Experimental wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:22 pm I had to log in to lol at that! For what its worth, I think most of us in Ireland thought it would be a yellow.
Freddie is clearly not going for the ball and decides to go for the player cause hes not gonna make it = penalty
Freddie clearly moves forward into the collision lifting his elbow up = red
Keenan is low in height (mitigation) = reduced to yellow
No ban
Slap on the wrist for Peyper
For me anyway.
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Offside
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Offside »

Hi, Welcome. I fixed the below for you :smt003

Freddie is clearly trying to avoid a worse collision with an offside player trying to collect a ball clearly knocked on = penalty to England if he gets it and prevents England taking advantage.
Keenan clearly moves forward into the collision lifting to stop England taking advantage of the knock on.
Keenan is low in height (mitigation) trying to interfere with play offside = reduced to yellow against Keenan.
No ban. Rugby collision with Ireland spoiling an advantage -surprise surprise as a very professional outfit.
Slap on the wrist for Peyper
For me anyway.
Love from Leicester
Experimental
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Experimental »

Loving it offside. You know, if you if you put Freddie is a nice collar and tie and sell them that story it might just work!
Tykger
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Tykger »

Offside wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:08 pm Hi, Welcome. I fixed the below for you :smt003

Freddie is clearly trying to avoid a worse collision with an offside player trying to collect a ball clearly knocked on = penalty to England if he gets it and prevents England taking advantage.
Keenan clearly moves forward into the collision lifting to stop England taking advantage of the knock on.
Keenan is low in height (mitigation) trying to interfere with play offside = reduced to yellow against Keenan.
No ban. Rugby collision with Ireland spoiling an advantage -surprise surprise as a very professional outfit.
Slap on the wrist for Peyper
For me anyway.
Love from Leicester
That is a thing of beauty. COYT
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Experimental wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:22 pm I had to log in to lol at that! For what its worth, I think most of us in Ireland thought it would be a yellow.
Freddie is clearly not going for the ball and decides to go for the player cause hes not gonna make it = penalty
Freddie clearly moves forward into the collision lifting his elbow up = red
Keenan is low in height (mitigation) = reduced to yellow
No ban
Slap on the wrist for Peyper
For me anyway.
Love from Leinster
Nice to see you here, hopefully we may be seeing you in the near future in the Champions Cup ¼'s
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Tigerbeat
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Tigerbeat »

England fullback Freddie Steward appeared before an independent Disciplinary Committee via video link having received a red card in the Guinness Six Nations match between Ireland and England on Saturday 18th March 2023 played at the Aviva Stadium.

The Red Card was issued as a result of the Referee concluding that the Player had acted contrary to Law 9.13 (A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously. Dangerous tackling includes, but is not limited to, tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders),

The independent Disciplinary Committee consisting of Nigel Hampton KC – Chair (New Zealand), Frank Hadden (Scotland) and John Langford (Australia) heard the case, and considered all the available evidence, including multiple broadcast angles and submissions from the Player and his representative.

After hearing the submissions, the Disciplinary Committee formally amended the Law which was breached to Law 9.11 (Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others including leading with the elbow or forearm, or jumping into, or over, a tackler.)

The player denied that he had committed an act of foul play worthy of a red card as described in Law 9.11. Having reviewed all the evidence, the Committee decided that: (i) head contact with an opposing player had occurred; (ii) there had been an act of foul play in breach of Law 9.11 in that the Player had been reckless in his actions and in his upright positioning as he approached and came into highly dangerous contact with the other player; and (iii) there were sufficient mitigating factors including the late change in the dynamics and positioning of the opposing player which should have resulted in the issue of a yellow card rather than a red card.

On that basis, the Committee did not uphold the red card and the player is free to play again immediately.

The Committee acknowledged that match officials are required to make decisions under pressure and in the heat of a live match environment.
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Nofrontteeth
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Nofrontteeth »

"Should have resulted in a yellow card".
Is that a cop out for Jaco rather than a definite 'every time' for all Refs.
I still fear for the teams/players playing the rules and not the game. Short bums like me could duck into every 6 footer and seek 10 minutes against 14.
northerntiger
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by northerntiger »

One thing that is always absent in the refs discussion of red/yellow cards is the question of time ie did he have time to adjust his body height. The narrative always seems to be that the tackling player did not dip, or maintained an upright stanch. In a lot of the situations I don't think the tacking player has enough time to do any of these things, and just reacts instinctively. Slo mo replays really don't help here. As part of the mitigation discussion I would like to see 'did the tackling player have time to adjust' asked as a question.

I've seen posters on other sites say Freddie 'chose' to turn away and present his shoulder. He didn't, he just did it instinctively.
wigworth
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by wigworth »

northerntiger wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:49 am One thing that is always absent in the refs discussion of red/yellow cards is the question of time ie did he have time to adjust his body height. The narrative always seems to be that the tackling player did not dip, or maintained an upright stanch. In a lot of the situations I don't think the tacking player has enough time to do any of these things, and just reacts instinctively. Slo mo replays really don't help here. As part of the mitigation discussion I would like to see 'did the tackling player have time to adjust' asked as a question.

I've seen posters on other sites say Freddie 'chose' to turn away and present his shoulder. He didn't, he just did it instinctively.
Good point.
mol2
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by mol2 »

Cop out.
Freddy tried to evade contact with a player who ran into him. Irrespective of their player having the ball, which shouldn't because he gathered it having knocked on, he was pulling out of contact and as such the contact was accidental. Not reckless, careless or any way his fault.
Nofrontteeth
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Nofrontteeth »

How does it go "Rules are for the blind obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

How many who sit on these 'Tribunals' have actually played or are they just there to debate a point of law. You don't have to be a King's Council to determine that Jaco got it wrong.
trendylfj
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by trendylfj »

The ref mike showed that Freddie said that he had nowhere to go and he was just bracing for contact. In today's rugby, it did deserve a card but not red. The ref got it totally wrong IMHO when he refused to consider any mitigation - player in possesion dipping, the small amount of time from the time Keenen picked up the ball to contact for Freddie to do anything. no leading arm, it was tucked in. To me, for once the panel got it right which is more than could be said for the officials and I include touch judges and the person in the box. When do we ever see any of them question the ref's final conclusion - not often.
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tigerburnie
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by tigerburnie »

I have the feeling the law change is to protect the Rugby Unions from litigation rather then protecting the players from harm.
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Old Hob
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by Old Hob »

Slo-mo on the big screen, at whichever ground, gets a massive reaction from the home crowd if one of their players is the "injured party". It happens at MWWR, the same as everywhere else. TMOs and refs seem to take an age to decide anything when the decision is often quite clear and repeated showings of the same angle in slo-mo does nothing but wind up the crowd. What about a smaller, high-definition screen at pitchside and then show the crowd on the big screen when the decision has been made?
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ashleytiger
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Re: 6 Nations 2023

Post by ashleytiger »

The Irish Player was committing an offence at the time, in that the ball had been knocked on and he had picked it up forward of the knock on. He was attempting to prevent Freddie from picking up the ball legally. Freddie was NOT TACKLING him but running forward to claim the ball, therefore he was not in contravention of Law 9;13. The Irish player in picking up the ball (illegally) then carried on bent forward and ran into him. That is how I saw (and still see it). But of course the committee couldn't throw all four match officials to the wolves.
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