England squad

[Rugbygramps]

RFU legal confirm Farrell is exempt from the disciplinary process......

Not sure if this is sarcasm but he was banned in line with what would have been expected.

Or is this another his name is Farrell and he plays for Saracens so he gets special treatment

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

No because his ban is weeks not matches.

[TigerFeetSteve]

RFU legal confirm Farrell is exempt from the disciplinary process......

Not sure if this is sarcasm but he was banned in line with what would have been expected.

Or is this another his name is Farrell and he plays for Saracens so he gets special treatment

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

In reality though had his ban been one match shorter, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he'd been released to play the club game. Ok think him not being released is more likely, but had his ban been one week less I think I'd say there was a 40% chance Borthwick would want him with a game under his belt before the Calcutta cup.

Borthwick did the same with Montoya last year, played him coming back from a knee injury vs Bristol in a dead rubber (ok the OTY game but nothing on it technically) to make sure he's match sharp for the semifinal.

100% that is a perfectly valid thing for Borthwick to do.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Not sure if this is sarcasm but he was banned in line with what would have been expected.

Or is this another his name is Farrell and he plays for Saracens so he gets special treatment

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

No because his ban is weeks not matches.

Technically in language only

If there is not a meaningful match for the player it does not count towards any ban.

[Samhorace]

I understand the financial and player/club commitments surrounding the number of changes (five)being permitted, however SB being new in post should not be ham strung by Eddie Jones previous poor selections and agreement should have been reached to allow him (SB) to pick his squad as he wants it. Lawrence for Merchant for example. Martin should be there as well.

[Rugbygramps]

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

No because his ban is weeks not matches.

Technically in language only

If there is not a meaningful match for the player it does not count towards any ban.

Don’t doubt what you’re saying, but National coach uses the system to ensure his captain is available Quell Surprise.
He has also missed three games 2 European and one v Bristol, although the Bristol one clashes with England training.

[daktari]

Not sure if this is sarcasm but he was banned in line with what would have been expected.

Or is this another his name is Farrell and he plays for Saracens so he gets special treatment

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

No because his ban is weeks not matches.

That isn't the reality though - if he doesn't complete "tackle school" he is banned from the Leicester match - that's 5 weeks from the hearing. It's a clear fudge to allow him to play for England.(nothing to do with Farrell as play but the disciplinary system)

[Tigerbeat]

RFU legal confirm Farrell is exempt from the disciplinary process......

Not sure if this is sarcasm but he was banned in line with what would have been expected.

Or is this another his name is Farrell and he plays for Saracens so he gets special treatment

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

This is a squad of players for the Six nations rather than a team selection. Farrell has technically been given back to Saracens as available so that it covers the Bristol game........

[Rugbygramps]

paraphrase from SB, RFU legal team have said he can play in the Scotland match. Essential he is listed as banned from the Bristol Match..however as he is now with England he would not be expect to be released from England to play for the Bristol match..which should mean he his banned for the Scotland Match....

No because his ban is weeks not matches.

That isn't the reality though - if he doesn't complete "tackle school" he is banned from the Leicester match - that's 5 weeks from the hearing. It's a clear fudge to allow him to play for England.(nothing to do with Farrell as play but the disciplinary system)

I’m sorry but that’s rubbish, which player hasn’t completed tackle school

[Louis]

Overall a good squad but some glaring omissions:

Anthony Watson
Ollie Lawrence
Ted Hill
Dave Ribbans
Henry Aurendell

Arundell and Watson injured........

And Sb can only change 5 outside of injuries so slightly limited

I saw this restriction too and, whilst I understand the logic, I'm not very sympathetic.

This, for me, is managerial overreach. A good coach is unlikely to come in and boot every established player out the door, but if they need 6 changes not 5 (for example) it's not showing a lot of faith in the coach's rugby nous to handcuff them with a hard number. A sensible conversation between players/coaches/RFU suits etc should surely be enough to determine changes.

[GB72]

Overall a good squad but some glaring omissions:

Anthony Watson
Ollie Lawrence
Ted Hill
Dave Ribbans
Henry Aurendell

Arundell and Watson injured........

And Sb can only change 5 outside of injuries so slightly limited

I saw this restriction too and, whilst I understand the logic, I'm not very sympathetic.

This, for me, is managerial overreach. A good coach is unlikely to come in and boot every established player out the door, but if they need 6 changes not 5 (for example) it's not showing a lot of faith in the coach's rugby nous to handcuff them with a hard number. A sensible conversation between players/coaches/RFU suits etc should surely be enough to determine changes.

I guess this is one of the few situations where the clubs actually get their own way a bit. At least they can plan to a large extent as to who they will and will not have for the next couple of months, as well as knowing roughly what compensation they will receive that can be applied to back up players. I can understand why the rule is in place but common sense would suggest that the clubs coul dbe asked to vote on giving SB carte blanche to select his first squad.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I understand the financial and player/club commitments surrounding the number of changes (five)being permitted, however SB being new in post should not be ham strung by Eddie Jones previous poor selections and agreement should have been reached to allow him (SB) to pick his squad as he wants it. Lawrence for Merchant for example. Martin should be there as well.

Let's not forget that Martin (along with Porter & Watson are currently injured) so we can't say they're definitely "not" in his plans

[Louis]

[<snip>
I guess this is one of the few situations where the clubs actually get their own way a bit. At least they can plan to a large extent as to who they will and will not have for the next couple of months, as well as knowing roughly what compensation they will receive that can be applied to back up players. I can understand why the rule is in place but common sense would suggest that the clubs coul dbe asked to vote on giving SB carte blanche to select his first squad.

Would that help the clubs though? Presumably SB could pick all the switches from one club, and whether he changed the whole squad or no one at all, the timing of the England team announcement is surely more relevant to the clubs than the restriction on number of changes. They can plan regardless of number of England squad changes as long as they know soon enough.

I think it would remarkably unlikely for a new coach to come in and not pick Farrell, Steward, Tuilagi, Genge etc etc, so even the newest of brooms is not likely to sweep everyone out the door.

[Scott1]

England Six Nations squad

Forwards: Ollie Chessum, Dan Cole, Ben Curry, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George, Joe Heyes, Jonny Hill, Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Courtney Lawes, Lewis Ludlam, George McGuigan, Bevan Rodd, Sam Simmonds, Kyle Sinckler, Mako Vunipola, Jack Walker, Jack Willis.

Backs: Elliot Daly, Owen Farrell, Tommy Freeman, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Dan Kelly, Max Malins, Joe Marchant, Alex Mitchell, Cadan Murley, Henry Slade, Fin Smith, Marcus Smith, Freddie Steward, Manu Tuilagi, Jack van Poortvliet, Ben Youngs.

[Scott1]

Are we going to see Farrell,Kelly,Manu or Farrell,Kelly,Slade?

[Hot_Charlie]

Overall a good squad but some glaring omissions:

Anthony Watson
Ollie Lawrence
Ted Hill
Dave Ribbans
Henry Aurendell

Don’t know if Watson and Arundell are injured? Ribbans for Isiekwe but the later will fix the lineout.
I would have taken Lawrence over Marchant but the latter has more positional flexibility. Hill is unlucky but backrow very competitive.

No Vunipola means more options for none jumping flankers.

Certainly Watson came off against Sale injured and I don’t think Arundell has played since November

Just checked. 21st October for Arundell.