England squad

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Big Dai
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Re: England squad

Post by Big Dai »

tigerburnie wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:33 pm For all foolishness I'd still look at having Joe Marler around the squad, he is still a formidable player, he just needs a wet nurse to look after him.
If you believe the various social media posts, Cole could be that wet nurse.
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Rugbygramps
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Re: England squad

Post by Rugbygramps »

tigerburnie wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:33 pm For all foolishness I'd still look at having Joe Marler around the squad, he is still a formidable player, he just needs a wet nurse to look after him.
2 things re Marler, firstly does he still want to play for England. Secondly knowing Borthwicks feelings on player behaviour I think he has well and truly burnt his bridges
westwinds31
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Re: England squad

Post by westwinds31 »

I love Dan Cole to bits, but whilst he could be a stop-gap for the 6 Nations, I don't see him as the tighthead to take us to the RWC. I'm fully aware that it's an 8-man effort, but we were ceremoniously battered in the 2019 RWC final and this season, I don't think Cole has been as dominant as last season, although he has held his end up, without being destructive. His involvement around the field has been very much in evidence so that must have been a factor, plus the experience & leadership that he brings. He ain't the future though clearly.

I saw/heard it mentioned sometime last week, there are some players who are always 8+ out of 10, every single game and have lots of involvements - Earl and Dombrandt are a great example of this and if they can replicate that at International level, happy days.
wigworth
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Re: England squad

Post by wigworth »

westwinds31 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:02 pm I love Dan Cole to bits, but whilst he could be a stop-gap for the 6 Nations, I don't see him as the tighthead to take us to the RWC. I'm fully aware that it's an 8-man effort, but we were ceremoniously battered in the 2019 RWC final and this season, I don't think Cole has been as dominant as last season, although he has held his end up, without being destructive. His involvement around the field has been very much in evidence so that must have been a factor, plus the experience & leadership that he brings. He ain't the future though clearly.

I saw/heard it mentioned sometime last week, there are some players who are always 8+ out of 10, every single game and have lots of involvements - Earl and Dombrandt are a great example of this and if they can replicate that at International level, happy days.
Who else is there at tight head currently though, who is also not currently injured?
Rugbygramps
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Re: England squad

Post by Rugbygramps »

westwinds31 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:02 pm I love Dan Cole to bits, but whilst he could be a stop-gap for the 6 Nations, I don't see him as the tighthead to take us to the RWC. I'm fully aware that it's an 8-man effort, but we were ceremoniously battered in the 2019 RWC final and this season, I don't think Cole has been as dominant as last season, although he has held his end up, without being destructive. His involvement around the field has been very much in evidence so that must have been a factor, plus the experience & leadership that he brings. He ain't the future though clearly.

I saw/heard it mentioned sometime last week, there are some players who are always 8+ out of 10, every single game and have lots of involvements - Earl and Dombrandt are a great example of this and if they can replicate that at International level, happy days.
I take your point but I don’t think there are any loosehead in the 6 nations that will get the better of him, plus him locking out his side allows Genge to go to work on the opposite side.
Also disagree about him not being right for the RWC he is probably fitter than any time in his career. All IMO of course
sapajo
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Re: England squad

Post by sapajo »

Smudge wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:39 pm Some interesting views on the squad selection.
Personally, as a Tigers supporter, I don't give a fig about the 6N and look upon it as a ridiculous intrusion in the season.
Football stopped playing the annual games against the other home countries years ago as they were meaningless. What other sport would allow their best players away for months in the middle of the domestic season?
If they must play them, do it every four years and in the summer.
As for the AI's? The All Blacks/Aussies touring was great once in a blue moon, but every year devalues the whole thing.
The loss of The Insects and Wuss must surely ring a bell? Clubs must come first.
Seconded :smt023
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tigerburnie
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Re: England squad

Post by tigerburnie »

Remember when the game went profesional the RFU didn't want to get involved with the clubs, they still don't they just use them as an asset. The cash cows that are the Autumn Internationals keeps all the rugby worlds Unions in gin and prawn sarnies it seems, of no interest to club supporters.
In the world rugby scenario, only England and France have clubs, the rest of the world are franchises or regions financed by their own Unions and Southern Hemisphere calls the shots. Money is really all that matters these days.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
CJ
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Re: England squad

Post by CJ »

Smudge, Sapajo,
Thirded👍
fentiger
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Re: England squad

Post by fentiger »

Smudge wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:39 pm Some interesting views on the squad selection.
Personally, as a Tigers supporter, I don't give a fig about the 6N and look upon it as a ridiculous intrusion in the season.
Football stopped playing the annual games against the other home countries years ago as they were meaningless. What other sport would allow their best players away for months in the middle of the domestic season?
If they must play them, do it every four years and in the summer.
As for the AI's? The All Blacks/Aussies touring was great once in a blue moon, but every year devalues the whole thing.
The loss of The Insects and Wuss must surely ring a bell? Clubs must come first.
You and me both :smt023
chewbacca
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Re: England squad

Post by chewbacca »

Ive become disillusioned with the National side, tending towards that with the professional game as well.
I'm not cynical just experienced
mol2
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Re: England squad

Post by mol2 »

The AIs have been extended too far.
The 6N need to be condensed with no rest weeks.

Surprised Mako has been retained. Can’t scrummage.

Daly may be ripping it up in a dominant Sarries side but at international level you can’t play a centre who doesn’t tackle. We have already seen he isn’t an international full back as he is poor under the high ball. You just have to take the ball high even if that exposes your ribs. Staying planted and taking the ball in the bread basket doesn’t work if there is a good kick chase. Playing him on the wing was a flop - red carded and others do it better.

The lighter Manu doesn’t look the menace he used to be.

Not surprised May and Nowell have been dropped. Both have slowed. A player like May who had serious gas isn’t the same threat. Nowell is getting exposed in defence because he can’t chase back like the youngsters.
Nofrontteeth
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Re: England squad

Post by Nofrontteeth »

I'm with Smudge et.al. on the 6N imposition on the professional game.

The RFU supposedly are the Guardians of the game at all levels but obviously not for the prem clubs.
Whilst they are using the financial weaknesses of the premiership to bully? demand? access to players for there non-premiership tournament to fill their coffers. They plead poverty or "we must remain independent as Guardians of the game" but appear to show no effort to underpin those same providers.
Compensation for international picks doesn't reflect the damage to the experience of the wider game.

I wonder in these financially tight times how many fans/supporters see losing seven or more first team players so often in season the final straw to not securing a season ticket and the slippery slope to not bothering.

RFU/6N/AI's - Killing the goose that lays the golden egg comes to mind.
P.S.
I'm a lifelong Tigers supporter with Scottish roots.
ourla
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Re: England squad

Post by ourla »

I love Tigers and club rugby as much as the next man but the 6N is a great tournament.

AI's and summer tours are useful but need to keep a lid on it.
Nofrontteeth
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Re: England squad

Post by Nofrontteeth »

Ourla,
6N I agree is a worthy tournament but let's play it after the season and not at the expense of the Prem.
Now I'm off to comb my sporran ready for the Calcutta 🏉. 😉
mol2
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Re: England squad

Post by mol2 »

Limit the AIs to a max of 3 played on successive weekends.
Summer tours are essentially cash cows for the opposition so 1 warm up match and 2 or 3 tests max. These must be early so that players have time to recover and prepare pre season back with their clubs.

I think Borthwick will have the common sense to recognise that conditioning is something that should be left to the clubs to do with input if England feel specific areas need addressing. The Jones era of returning players to clubs injured because he thought that overly intense sessions were essential to the team’s preparation. You don’t make meaningful gains to physical fitness in a few days’ training. This takes weeks or even months. The sessions should be about familiarisation with game plans and strategy, not getting fit.
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