Tigers v Sale (A) - Friday 30th December 2022 - KO:19:45

[johnthegriff]

Not seem the game on TV but I was at the AJB and seeing it once was enough. I think we were correct to start with Pollard but he does.not look fit so a gradual.build up.of game time is on the cards. I actually don't think we are far off where we were last season but a few just wins have become just loses. We are more affected by England call up as our young players gain recognition.
I do not understand why a winger is replaced by Burns when we have Ashton on the bench and being old school.i do not understand why with the score a 0 0 we spurn chances of 3 points. We dominated for 17 minutes without troubling the scoreboard Sale first visit to our 22 got the 3.
However after falling further behind to a brilliant try we were.mot out of the game until overwhelmed by injury, our 9 filling in at 10, our replacement hooker lining up.in the centre and a winger moving to 12 all whilst playing a man down. We are half way through the season there is a lot still to happen don't give up hope yet

[Big Dai]

I knew we were on for a bad day when two Sale players amble up the side of the ruck with the ball still in and Sir does nothing.

[fentiger]

I think the gods have conspired against us, the RFU asset stripping our coaches and then five injuries in the match! The best coaches in the world couldn't have done much about the hand we were dealt last night.

[sapajo]

Sale took us on up front and stopped our forward momentum we rely upon. They also have a very slick and excellent attack and apart from the first 15 mins we never looked like we were going to score from anywhere

[Scott1]

Sale took us on up front and stopped our forward momentum we rely upon. They also have a very slick and excellent attack and apart from the first 15 mins we never looked like we were going to score from anywhere

We are very much like England in that sense and not just this game. Route 1 doesn't work and we are toast

[sapajo]

Sale took us on up front and stopped our forward momentum we rely upon. They also have a very slick and excellent attack and apart from the first 15 mins we never looked like we were going to score from anywhere

We are very much like England in that sense and not just this game. Route 1 doesn't work and we are toast

Yep that is why we must evolve and not just maintain the Borthwick model beyond this season. Look at Saracens they have evolved their game plan even since last season and the days when they relied solely upon kicking are a distant memory all under the same head coach

[Big Dai]

1st half... can't blame them in the 2nd...


For reference I reckon our 1st choice FIT backline is still pretty good.

9 JVP - England (Certainly)
10 Atkinson - England (Camp Possibly)
11 Potter - England (Possibly)
12 Kelly - England (Likely)
13 Scott - Scotland (Possibly)
14 Ashton
15 Steward - England (Certainly)

21 Youngs - England (Certainly)
22 Gopperth
23 Cokanasiga/Murimurivalu/Saumaki

Six Nations holes that below the waterline.

I think only Steward is nailed on......the others are probables and possibles.

[westwinds31]

But some context around yesterday, we tried the one out runners but it didn’t work, we also tried the box kicking…which didn’t work. At that point, when Sale are physically dominant and spoiling every ruck and maul it’s a difficult cycle to get out of. Against Gloucester, we fronted up physically and got the upper hand, which gave us space out wide to get the tries. I just wonder what we could have done any different last night ? Any ideas ? When you’re out-muscled, they are all over you, illegally or otherwise, that’s when you need your Montoya or Wiese to step up. We had Jansen….inexperienced at this level, Reffell….not really a ball carrier per se, Liebenberg….ball carrier but not with the dynamism of Wiese/Emperor. It’s tricky. With slow ball the backline receive the ball a the defence are hitting you ! It’s crazy to think that we were dominant for 20 minutes where Sale didn’t get into our half. Even with Ford & Genge, we wouldn’t have won that last night. Newcastle will be tough but we should get parity at the set piece, which should allow what backs we have left to find space.

[TigerReggie]

Having watched the highlights I hope we go out for a as top a head coach as we can get and afford. I'd rather lose trying to play with some flair. We just looked completely off. We have a top squad but it lacks direction from a top coaching setup. Borthwick I think was one dimensional and I hope we get someone that can get us playing with a decent plan b.

[sapajo]

But some context around yesterday, we tried the one out runners but it didn’t work, we also tried the box kicking…which didn’t work. At that point, when Sale are physically dominant and spoiling every ruck and maul it’s a difficult cycle to get out of. Against Gloucester, we fronted up physically and got the upper hand, which gave us space out wide to get the tries. I just wonder what we could have done any different last night ? Any ideas ? When you’re out-muscled, they are all over you, illegally or otherwise, that’s when you need your Montoya or Wiese to step up. We had Jansen….inexperienced at this level, Reffell….not really a ball carrier per se, Liebenberg….ball carrier but not with the dynamism of Wiese/Emperor. It’s tricky. With slow ball the backline receive the ball a the defence are hitting you ! It’s crazy to think that we were dominant for 20 minutes where Sale didn’t get into our half. Even with Ford & Genge, we wouldn’t have won that last night. Newcastle will be tough but we should get parity at the set piece, which should allow what backs we have left to find space.

One out runners is all we can offer in attack that is why our attack is blunt and relies on moments of individual brilliance. Our attack must be the some of all its parts

[RagingBull]

I do think Borthwick was a bit one dimensional, but you also got to remember that the league is really unpredictable this season.
We lost to sale, who lost to falcons, who lost to Irish, who lost to us.

The league is pretty poor in general in terms of quality anyone on the day can beat literally anyone. So it’s a tight contest.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I do not understand why a winger is replaced by Burns when we have Ashton on the bench and being old school.

Ashton was already on. He came on when Porter came off for his head injury, so Potter moved to 13.

When Watson was also injured Burns came on at Fullback, with Steward moved to wing. At that point all players were either in their primary or secondary positions. Then Pollard came off for Youngs. Nominally JVP moved to wing, Steward back to fullback and Burns to 10. Shortly after Burns came off, JVP moved to 10, Oghre 12, Kelly 13, Potter back to wing and Steward back to fullback.

[DeadlyDunc]

I do think Borthwick was a bit one dimensional, but you also got to remember that the league is really unpredictable this season.
We lost to sale, who lost to falcons, who lost to Irish, who lost to us.

The league is pretty poor in general in terms of quality anyone on the day can beat literally anyone. So it’s a tight contest.

And 6 of our last 8 games are at home which is a huge plus.

Lots to play for albeit I think the top 2 are too far ahead but as noted by others - no one will want us in the playoffs if we have a fully fit squad available

[CrumblingTerrace]

That was very bad. A humbling defeat by a Sale team miles better than us in almost every facet of the game (well before the injuries).

I try and consider the past 3 games when discussing reflecting on where we're at. I think we look like a mid-table team at present. Middling in victory against Clermont and Glos and then thumped at Sale. Are we doing another year of kicking the stitching out of the ball? Because it's not a winning strategy in 22/23.

[LE18]

They say that if the same mistake is intentionally made more than once, then it implies insanity. Four attempts at going for the corner when points were on offer may qualify as such? Surely, the homework had been done on Sale and how abrasive they are? Take the points and reset. Had the points been taken (possible 12) then maybe the outcome would have been different but on that Sale performance I doubt it.

If Pollard was only to play 40 mins then why not the second 40 as is often done when players are returning from injury. He may be a "game changer" but his recovery from injury need time as with any other player. Why disrupt the momentum of the Glaws game?

Sale were brilliant in places; did their homework and knew how to dismantle the Tigers up front. JVP had a mare, as some on here say, because the forwards could not contain Sale and get dominance, just as England struggle to do. Many a 9 goes backwards when a team is put under pressure.

The Tigers have to suck it up, get momentum up against the Falcons, primed ready for Clermont.

Its also a game and sometimes it just goes belly up. I cannot think of any rugby team that has not had a bad game?

Regarding the 4 penalties to touch, you need to remember they all came from the 1 attack, take 1 of them , 3 points, not 12. they kick off and pressure is back on us, end of attack, no 3 penalties, the've gone. So its wrong to assume we would have had 12 points, 3 may have given us some momentum, but from what I saw we were being out muscled.