Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

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Robespierre
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Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Robespierre »

Here are the fixtures for the first weekend of the (no longer) European Champions' Cup:

Friday 9 Dec
London Irish v Montpellier

Saturday 10 Dec
Racing v Leinster (in Le Havre)
Natal Sharks v Harlequins
Glos v Bordeaux/Bègles
Bulls v Lyon
Castres v Exeter
Clermont v Stormers
La Rochelle v Northampton

Sunday 11 Dec
Saracens v Edinburgh
Sale v Ulster
Munster v Toulouse
Ospreys v Tigers

I'm far from convinced that the inclusion of the South African sides is a good thing.
May I suggest that you all give your vote, Yes or No

Robespierre - No
Semper in excretia
Rugbygramps
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

No. Joe Marler said it very well after the match at The Rec. We are playing in Europe next week and travelling to Natal. :smt017
Old Hob
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Old Hob »

Definite NO for me; this is sliding in a world club competition by the back door.
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loretta
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by loretta »

No
In my defence, I was left unsupervised….
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Maybe from me... it got to the point where only 2 or 3 clubs could win it, so more teams who can challenge at the top level is a good thing, not convinced this is the best way though... Only a small time difference means not much jetlag from flights...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 pm Maybe from me... it got to the point where only 2 or 3 clubs could win it, so more teams who can challenge at the top level is a good thing, not convinced this is the best way though... Only a small time difference means not much jetlag from flights...
Have their performances in the URC suggested that they are serious contenders. Don’t follow it so no idea.
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by wigworth »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:29 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 pm Maybe from me... it got to the point where only 2 or 3 clubs could win it, so more teams who can challenge at the top level is a good thing, not convinced this is the best way though... Only a small time difference means not much jetlag from flights...
Have their performances in the URC suggested that they are serious contenders. Don’t follow it so no idea.
Yes they are good enough to go deep in the competition, for me Leinster and maybe a few French clubs would still be ahead of them but it would not be a surprise for one of them to make a semi this year.
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

wigworth wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:32 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:29 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 pm Maybe from me... it got to the point where only 2 or 3 clubs could win it, so more teams who can challenge at the top level is a good thing, not convinced this is the best way though... Only a small time difference means not much jetlag from flights...
Have their performances in the URC suggested that they are serious contenders. Don’t follow it so no idea.
Yes they are good enough to go deep in the competition, for me Leinster and maybe a few French clubs would still be ahead of them but it would not be a surprise for one of them to make a semi this year.
Thanks. I suppose it will also depend on what strength side they send to away fixtures too
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by wigworth »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:37 pm
wigworth wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:32 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:29 pm

Have their performances in the URC suggested that they are serious contenders. Don’t follow it so no idea.
Yes they are good enough to go deep in the competition, for me Leinster and maybe a few French clubs would still be ahead of them but it would not be a surprise for one of them to make a semi this year.
Thanks. I suppose it will also depend on what strength side they send to away fixtures too
Yeah but I would bet they would send decent sides as they did take quite a bit of pride of having a all SA URC final last year in their first year in the comp so I would guess they would like to give a good showing of themselves.

What may be the more concerning point about SA teams in the Champions Cup is how the French teams react to playing them down in SA. Rúaidhrí O'Connor mentioned on a Off the Ball rugby show that if the French clubs suffer any of the issues some of the URC teams have faced with sickness and illness and that then impacts their Top 14 league games then the French clubs might refuse to go down there and bring the whole comp down. He did note that the French clubs were lukewarm on the SA teams joining while the Prem clubs were far more in favour.
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

wigworth wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:45 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:37 pm
wigworth wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:32 pm

Yes they are good enough to go deep in the competition, for me Leinster and maybe a few French clubs would still be ahead of them but it would not be a surprise for one of them to make a semi this year.
Thanks. I suppose it will also depend on what strength side they send to away fixtures too
Yeah but I would bet they would send decent sides as they did take quite a bit of pride of having a all SA URC final last year in their first year in the comp so I would guess they would like to give a good showing of themselves.

What may be the more concerning point about SA teams in the Champions Cup is how the French teams react to playing them down in SA. Rúaidhrí O'Connor mentioned on a Off the Ball rugby show that if the French clubs suffer any of the issues some of the URC teams have faced with sickness and illness and that then impacts their Top 14 league games then the French clubs might refuse to go down there and bring the whole comp down. He did note that the French clubs were lukewarm on the SA teams joining while the Prem clubs were far more in favour.
Ok that’s interesting. Willing to bet the Premiership clubs didn’t consult their players.
It’s also a bit of a myth that the long flights to and from South Africa don’t affect player conditioning, though to to the same effect as jet lag.
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:04 pm
wigworth wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:45 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:37 pm

Thanks. I suppose it will also depend on what strength side they send to away fixtures too
Yeah but I would bet they would send decent sides as they did take quite a bit of pride of having a all SA URC final last year in their first year in the comp so I would guess they would like to give a good showing of themselves.

What may be the more concerning point about SA teams in the Champions Cup is how the French teams react to playing them down in SA. Rúaidhrí O'Connor mentioned on a Off the Ball rugby show that if the French clubs suffer any of the issues some of the URC teams have faced with sickness and illness and that then impacts their Top 14 league games then the French clubs might refuse to go down there and bring the whole comp down. He did note that the French clubs were lukewarm on the SA teams joining while the Prem clubs were far more in favour.
Ok that’s interesting. Willing to bet the Premiership clubs didn’t consult their players.
It’s also a bit of a myth that the long flights to and from South Africa don’t affect player conditioning, though to to the same effect as jet lag.
There are two key causes of jetlag

1. Time differences
2. Reduction in oxygen levels in the plane

Now 1. isn't really an issue with SA.

2. On std commercial planes they recirculate a percentage of the air and it means that over time the oxygen levels in the cabin reduce slightly (nowhere near dangerous levels in case people worry). However it is more expensive but possible to keep those levels higher. Certainly they do this in some chartered jets etc (they may even do it in first class on some planes etc... not sure)

So if we can afford to send the players in the right manner then jet lag and impact on conditioning is not really a concern IMO...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Tiglon
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Tiglon »

It's the Heineken Champions Cup, no reason for me why non-European teams shouldn't be included.

I just enjoy watching good rugby.

It's not good for rugby if SA declines because they can't get enough strong opposition at club level.
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:34 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:04 pm
wigworth wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:45 pm

Yeah but I would bet they would send decent sides as they did take quite a bit of pride of having a all SA URC final last year in their first year in the comp so I would guess they would like to give a good showing of themselves.

What may be the more concerning point about SA teams in the Champions Cup is how the French teams react to playing them down in SA. Rúaidhrí O'Connor mentioned on a Off the Ball rugby show that if the French clubs suffer any of the issues some of the URC teams have faced with sickness and illness and that then impacts their Top 14 league games then the French clubs might refuse to go down there and bring the whole comp down. He did note that the French clubs were lukewarm on the SA teams joining while the Prem clubs were far more in favour.
Ok that’s interesting. Willing to bet the Premiership clubs didn’t consult their players.
It’s also a bit of a myth that the long flights to and from South Africa don’t affect player conditioning, though to to the same effect as jet lag.
There are two key causes of jetlag

1. Time differences
2. Reduction in oxygen levels in the plane

Now 1. isn't really an issue with SA.

2. On std commercial planes they recirculate a percentage of the air and it means that over time the oxygen levels in the cabin reduce slightly (nowhere near dangerous levels in case people worry). However it is more expensive but possible to keep those levels higher. Certainly they do this in some chartered jets etc (they may even do it in first class on some planes etc... not sure)

So if we can afford to send the players in the right manner then jet lag and impact on conditioning is not really a concern IMO...
Not just about that but large gentleman in seats that aren’t big enough for them without the ability to move around. As I say it isn’t jet lag but travel affecting conditioning and training schedules. Anyway we digress
Tykger
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by Tykger »

It's a no from me. If they want a world club challenge have one, otherwise leave it alone. I don't want to fight change, but I'd much rather go back to Cal - vis- ano !
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Re: Champions Cup - Round 1 Fixtures - 09-11th December 2022

Post by wardy »

It may be the Heiniken Rugby Cup but it's organised by a European organisation, EPCR who call their secondary competition the European Challenge Cup. So it's a NO from me. It's akin to allowing Australia into the Eurovision Song Contest!
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