Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

[ay2oh]

with all in mind I will repeat what I said yesterday "any replacements to the above will likely not occur until end of this season but most likely after the world cup so 2 seasons."
Those being this season & next, from what I can see right now we are right back to where we were before SB arrived with searches going on around the world for the Best availble people, meanwhile players due to have contracts renewed or indeed players we may have been looking to bringing in may well be put on hold by us or they may well be having 2nd thoughts.

£1m is not going to cut it if that was indeed the figure we got from the RFU, because no matter how you look at this, the heart has been ripped out of the club.
I am not saying SB & KS have done us over by leaving because we all expected it indeed the club were planning for it.But Not Now!! The trouble being the RFU got wiggly bums & sacked EJ.
I feel we would have been right to say you are contracted to the end of this season or whenever as i think it was for longer & The TIGERS come first not england, I have supported my club for many years & always will but this stinks & I will never forget who/how this has come about through no fault of 22k+ supporters of this great club.
If this upsets anyone so be it, but I am really angry at what has come about here.

Excellent post we are back to square one. If any reminder is needed the club is a business and the compensation money was just to alluring to turn down. For me the club have a lot to answer for choosing to pocket the cash and cynically see out the season as cheap as possible because there is no relegation. I do not care a flying fig about England its always club first for me.

agree 100% on this post. Club first every time. This forum is for Tigers supporters as far as I know. Not everyone on here is an England fan

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

What makes my blood boil is that supporters, and yes I believe they are true supporters, believe in the real world, that Borthwick, Sinfield and Tigers should have told the RFU to wait for 6 months.

Doesn’t matter who’s fault it was or who took their eye off the ball, in a real world scenario that just wasn’t going to happen.

Coaching jobs aren't like buses, the same opportunity will likely never come again if you miss it.

Perhaps, but that does not mean we are all sheep that subscribe to this opinion presented as a fact.

There is an extremely good argument to be had that he isn't ready for the England job anyway, of those that have are going its Aled that is the biggest loss, personally I would have reduced the compensation required if WW had gone at the same time as SB. Where all if this leaves the Invisible Man who knows, he was very much a SB led appointment.

The main thing with SB leaving is he has only really done half a job at Tigers....time for the senior players to really stand up now & lead..unlike previously where they have been part of the problem.

[Rugbygramps]

What makes my blood boil is that supporters, and yes I believe they are true supporters, believe in the real world, that Borthwick, Sinfield and Tigers should have told the RFU to wait for 6 months.

Doesn’t matter who’s fault it was or who took their eye off the ball, in a real world scenario that just wasn’t going to happen.

Coaching jobs aren't like buses, the same opportunity will likely never come again if you miss it.

Perhaps, but that does not mean we are all sheep that subscribe to this opinion presented as a fact.

Not aware that anyone has said that, and at the end of the day what has happened is fact, anything else is purely hypothetical

[Rugbygramps]

Coaching jobs aren't like buses, the same opportunity will likely never come again if you miss it.

Perhaps, but that does not mean we are all sheep that subscribe to this opinion presented as a fact.

There is an extremely good argument to be had that he isn't ready for the England job anyway, of those that have are going its Aled that is the biggest loss, personally I would have reduced the compensation required if WW had gone at the same time as SB. Where all if this leaves the Invisible Man who knows, he was very much a SB led appointment.

The main thing with SB leaving is he has only really done half a job at Tigers....time for the senior players to really stand up now & lead..unlike previously where they have been part of the problem.

With respect whether or not people feel he is ready for the England job is irrelevant, he was offered it he took. Had he said no speak to me in June who knows what would have happened.
Maybe just maybe, the injury list would have been just as long, and the 2 results at Sale and Newcastle would have happened anyway.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

He could have said ring me in 4 years...if it goes wrong with England it's a long way back.

[wigworth]

What makes my blood boil is that supporters, and yes I believe they are true supporters, believe in the real world, that Borthwick, Sinfield and Tigers should have told the RFU to wait for 6 months.

Doesn’t matter who’s fault it was or who took their eye off the ball, in a real world scenario that just wasn’t going to happen.

Coaching jobs aren't like buses, the same opportunity will likely never come again if you miss it.

Perhaps, but that does not mean we are all sheep that subscribe to this opinion presented as a fact.

I am not sure how you can construe anything I said in that statement as a declaration of a fact, I even couched it by saying 'likely'. The bare facts are that the job Borthwick ultimately wanted came vacant and he took the opportunity when he had the chance to, as much as some on here have the view that club is greater than country, which is a valid view to have, this is obviously not how the vast majority of professionals in the sport feel, be it coaches or players.

[Rugbygramps]

He could have said ring me in 4 years...if it goes wrong with England it's a long way back.

He could have said build me a time machine and I’ll see what’s going to happen, but unfortunately we’re dealing with reality, and Borthwick obviously feels he is ready for the job

[Tigerbeat]

This is just another example of people being head hunted for jobs because they fit the role. Borthwick has experienced time within the England set up and it was only a matter of time before he took the role. Sacking Eddie Jones has meant things have added ahead of time.
The RFU approached Tigers rather than Borthwick making the first step is how it appears. The RFU believe that he is the person for the job and has the belief that he has the qualities to deliver a successful national team.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

He could have said ring me in 4 years...if it goes wrong with England it's a long way back.

He could have said build me a time machine and I’ll see what’s going to happen, but unfortunately we’re dealing with reality, and Borthwick obviously feels he is ready for the job

We shall see if he is, the one advantage he has is this RWC is a free hit for him in some respects...if he gets another crack at it might be the issue..
On what has happened with Tigers this season the jury is very much out.

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He was offered the job he really wanted and took it, thats fact. Great. Doesn't mean people can't be unhappy at the situation. Considering our recent past and coaching issues I can totally see why people are not happy.

TBH, I was never that pleased about Borthwick, I didn't like how Murphy was treated. Ultimatley I was proved wrong, I'm happy to admit that. But then this season....were the coaches as good as last season made them out to be. We're back in a mess and we'll see how good SB & KS really are.....

[ay2oh]

He was offered the job he really wanted and took it, thats fact. Great. Doesn't mean people can't be unhappy at the situation. Considering our recent past and coaching issues I can totally see why people are not happy.

TBH, I was never that pleased about Borthwick, I didn't like how Murphy was treated. Ultimatley I was proved wrong, I'm happy to admit that. But then this season....were the coaches as good as last season made them out to be. We're back in a mess and we'll see how good SB & KS really are.....

One thing it has reinforced is how little regard the RFU has for the clubs.

[Rugbygramps]

He was offered the job he really wanted and took it, thats fact. Great. Doesn't mean people can't be unhappy at the situation. Considering our recent past and coaching issues I can totally see why people are not happy.

TBH, I was never that pleased about Borthwick, I didn't like how Murphy was treated. Ultimatley I was proved wrong, I'm happy to admit that. But then this season....were the coaches as good as last season made them out to be. We're back in a mess and we'll see how good SB & KS really are.....

One thing it has reinforced is how little regard the RFU has for the clubs.

I think we all agree on this. It’s the laying the blame at Borthwicks door for taking his country’s top job that gets me, no matter what your feelings in the Club v Country debate.
I’m no sporting historian but I can’t think of any other instances where someone has turned down their country’s top job.

[sapajo]

Unfortunately choices always have consequences. In the case of Borthwick choosing to leave our club to be England Coach its our club and its supporters who are now suffering those consequences.

That said I appreciate that some folk may view these as positive consequences

[Scuttle]

Unfortunately choices always have consequences. In the case of Borthwick choosing to leave our club to be England Coach its our club and its supporters who are now suffering those consequences.

That said I appreciate that some folk may view these as positive consequences

Borthwick was on a trajectory for the top job, which was forshortened by the EJ sacking. Interestingly I actually agree with both the main points being put forward.

I fully understand why he chose to take the opportunity now; to do otherwise could have closed the door forever knowing how clueless the RFU are.

However, I use the word "chose" deliberately because it was his choice and he will have known the consequences of him leaving when he did, and taking Sinfield with him, and rumoured taking Walters and Wigglesworth too. He chose to do it in full knowledge he could be taking the core of the senior Tigers coaching staff out of the club, when the club has little chance of replacing them in an orderly way.

So join me on the fence and look both ways!!

As to whether he is up to the job, I have no more idea other than the qualities he has shown with us.......not the same job as England Head Coach though. I do think he will be judged by the WC because he has left us hastily and has a full 6 Nations to go at. He will have alot more prep time and a more settled coaching team for the WC than our incoming head coach will have for next season.

Edit...all the above does not mean I am happy about the situation

[Samhorace]

It is disappointing that we are in the position we now find yourself in, however we knew it would happen, clearly sooner than expected.

We should thank SB and KS for the work they have done to turn things around on and off the pitch along with the rest of the staff and squad. They have made a good start in setting us on the right road and restored pride in the club and the fans.
Let's wish them the best and hope they can be as successful in turning England around, after all when all further have a decent squad available.

We should now move on and place our trust in those left in charge to first steady the ship with solid performances on the pitch and then build on the squad and work done over the last couple of years and trust the board to invest in the team(s
)and fans future with the right appointments going forward.