Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

LE18 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:10 pm
Ian Cant wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:15 pm Surely we don’t, as one poster suggested, want Diamond or Gustard?
Gustard didn’t do very well at Quins and Diamond! Really.
I’m not sure the RFU would agree to Super Kev having lots of time off to do his charity work and to be honest our defence has been very poor this season!
Leo Cullen!
Not easy mid season and even worse is because Borthwick will want a team of players we can trust he could well take JVP, Youngs, Heyes, Cole, Watson,Steward, Porter, Kelly, Chessum and Martin to the World Cup!
What have you got against Diamond, he is a bit of a rough diamond but so what, i think he speaks his mind and is open in what he says.?
I know it's not directed at me, my biggest concerns with Diamond would be

1) Friction between Chairman & Head Coach if Diamond was made head coach

2)Friction between players and Diamond. The guy got rid of Ashton twice. Ashton has actually seemed to intergrate well at Tigers. Our team spirit and togetherness was on show at the final and I could see Diamond upsetting that possibly if certain players don't want him there.

That said he is still a good DOR so should be considered if we really need someone
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LE18
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by LE18 »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:19 pm
LE18 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:10 pm
Ian Cant wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:15 pm Surely we don’t, as one poster suggested, want Diamond or Gustard?
Gustard didn’t do very well at Quins and Diamond! Really.
I’m not sure the RFU would agree to Super Kev having lots of time off to do his charity work and to be honest our defence has been very poor this season!
Leo Cullen!
Not easy mid season and even worse is because Borthwick will want a team of players we can trust he could well take JVP, Youngs, Heyes, Cole, Watson,Steward, Porter, Kelly, Chessum and Martin to the World Cup!
What have you got against Diamond, he is a bit of a rough diamond but so what, i think he speaks his mind and is open in what he says.?
I know it's not directed at me, my biggest concerns with Diamond would be

1) Friction between Chairman & Head Coach if Diamond was made head coach

2)Friction between players and Diamond. The guy got rid of Ashton twice. Ashton has actually seemed to intergrate well at Tigers. Our team spirit and togetherness was on show at the final and I could see Diamond upsetting that possibly if certain players don't want him there.

That said he is still a good DOR so should be considered if we really need someone
Interesting points, do we know all the facts, especially about Ashton, fans on here cant make up their minfs about him and have started to critisise him, was Diamond right?
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by wormus »

Loob19 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:39 pm
sam16111986 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:22 pm
wigworth wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:00 pm

"The Crusaders head coach is contracted until the end of 2024, but has a clause which allows him to take an international job if he is not offered the All Blacks position by the end of the 2023 Rugby World Cup."

While it would be nice I imagine any attempt to get him will be rebuffed until the end of the world cup when NZR absolutely have to make a decision.

The quote is from this article
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/all-bl ... -to-rivals
There would have to be a contingency where he could leave if offered the AB job. If he wanted a club job then there would be offers in France and Japan likely to dwarf anything we could offer.

The guy who push him hard for the Super Rugby title last time out however, he might be interested.
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LE18
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by LE18 »

Didnt Ashton also get the push from Saints and Sarries? If so perhaps Diamond is more astute than we think?
sam16111986
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by sam16111986 »

LE18 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:39 pm Didnt Ashton also get the push from Saints and Sarries? If so perhaps Diamond is more astute than we think?
Ashton chose to leave Saints for Sarries and a pay rise (plus lots of silverware). He chose to leave Sarries for Toulon, for money and the South of France. His error was coming back chasing an England recall and going to Sale where it didn't work for him unlike in Toulon where he was pretty successful.
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick

Post by TigerCam »

Louis wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:44 pm
Scott1 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:55 pm
sapajo wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:53 pm Seems the wheel has turned and we are now set to lose at least Borthwick our Head Coach who brought Tigers back from the Abyss to once again be premiership champions. What does the future now look like for Tigers post Borthwick and what must the club do to avoid returning to the dark days?
Not employ MOC! (Or Cockers!)
Hey! There's been an exhaustive global search for the right coach I'll have you know. No expense spared. All candidates considered.

So when Borthwick takes over England we can welcome Cockers back. ;-)
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trendylfj
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by trendylfj »

Hate to say it but I believe that what the Telegraph is saying makes a lot of sense so thank you, Steve, for all of your efforts, and hope that you have the same success with the National team. Sorry, you can't have Aled and Sir Kev, and also wish you don't take RW but suspect he will join you so thank you, Richard, as well.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ext-coach/
Hehehehehehehehe
KiwiTig
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by KiwiTig »

What about recruiting from within?
Old boot room style ?
Would Wiggy (Richard Wigglesworth) be our man and keep some form of continuity and familiarity to what what we’ve already achieved ?
He certainly knows the game
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by sapajo »

KiwiTig wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:15 am What about recruiting from within?
Old boot room style ?
Would Wiggy (Richard Wigglesworth) be our man and keep some form of continuity and familiarity to what what we’ve already achieved ?
He certainly knows the game
No not for me, before Borthwick incestuously recruiting from within was a Tigers speciality.
This is precisely why we hit rock bottom and nearly got relegated if not for Saracens.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by TTRITH »

sapajo wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:21 am No not for me, before Borthwick incestuously recruiting from within was a Tigers speciality.
This is precisely why we hit rock bottom and nearly got relegated if not for Saracens.
I think that's putting too finer point on it. There were many other factors at play. But I do share your concern. I mean, Cockers was recruited from within and then went on and won 3 Premiership titles, but then Murphy.

I still think there are some excellent ex-Tigers out there who are doing well in the coaching world, Brad Thorn at the Reds, Parling at the Rebels, Vesty at Saints, as examples, so I wouldn't rule them out. Equally, Louis Deacon (England Women) and Anthony Allen (Loughborough) also picked up plaudits so could make good assistant coaches.

I think I'd prefer us to be giving Deano a phone call to drop in and help the current set up - and then spent the rest of the season actually undertaking a proper search for a replacement, bringing them on board as soon as possible to get involved in the recruitment for next season.
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Rugbygramps »

TTRITH wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:51 am
sapajo wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:21 am No not for me, before Borthwick incestuously recruiting from within was a Tigers speciality.
This is precisely why we hit rock bottom and nearly got relegated if not for Saracens.
I think that's putting too finer point on it. There were many other factors at play. But I do share your concern. I mean, Cockers was recruited from within and then went on and won 3 Premiership titles, but then Murphy.

I still think there are some excellent ex-Tigers out there who are doing well in the coaching world, Brad Thorn at the Reds, Parling at the Rebels, Vesty at Saints, as examples, so I wouldn't rule them out. Equally, Louis Deacon (England Women) and Anthony Allen (Loughborough) also picked up plaudits so could make good assistant coaches.

I think I'd prefer us to be giving Deano a phone call to drop in and help the current set up - and then spent the rest of the season actually undertaking a proper search for a replacement, bringing them on board as soon as possible to get involved in the recruitment for next season.
Richards hasn’t been properly involved with coaching since Walder was promoted at Newcastle he was very much a figurehead and now spends his days hunting and fishing.
No matter who’s fault it was he left the club under a real cloud and should never be approached again. I’d rather they asked Murphy again than got Richards involved.

What is peoples fascination with ex Tigers, we have a couple of assistants in Deacon and Smith but in case no body noticed the holy trinity of Borthwick Sinfield and Walters had no connection with the club previously
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by TTRITH »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:00 am
Richards hasn’t been properly involved with coaching since Walder was promoted at Newcastle he was very much a figurehead and now spends his days hunting and fishing.
No matter who’s fault it was he left the club under a real cloud and should never be approached again. I’d rather they asked Murphy again than got Richards involved.

What is peoples fascination with ex Tigers, we have a couple of assistants in Deacon and Smith but in case no body noticed the holy trinity of Borthwick Sinfield and Walters had no connection with the club previously
I meant that Deano would only operate that role until the end of the season. I don't think he really coached at Tigers (John Wells was Head Coach if I recall correctly), but as Sinfield, Deacon, Harrison and Smith are fairly inexperienced, he could help in an almost consultancy role.

I want the best person for the role, in the same vein as some people desperately want an ex-Tiger, there's a lot of posters who are dead against the idea of an ex-Tiger. Give me a coach who has a good reputation for coaching, experience within the coaching set up and that players will respect and if they've been a Tiger before? Grand. If not, who cares, they're a Tiger now.
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by sapajo »

Well one thing is for sure Tigers clearly knew that Borthwick was off at the end of this season when we signed him. It would be logical to assume therefore that Tigers had 2 years (now 18mths) to plan for and recruit his successor. The issues facing Tigers are a) we have not signed a replacement yet, b) we have signed someone but not available until next season c) we are losing Borthwick mid season and whom to replace him with now?
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity
Rugbygramps
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Rugbygramps »

TTRITH wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:08 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:00 am
Richards hasn’t been properly involved with coaching since Walder was promoted at Newcastle he was very much a figurehead and now spends his days hunting and fishing.
No matter who’s fault it was he left the club under a real cloud and should never be approached again. I’d rather they asked Murphy again than got Richards involved.

What is peoples fascination with ex Tigers, we have a couple of assistants in Deacon and Smith but in case no body noticed the holy trinity of Borthwick Sinfield and Walters had no connection with the club previously
I meant that Deano would only operate that role until the end of the season. I don't think he really coached at Tigers (John Wells was Head Coach if I recall correctly), but as Sinfield, Deacon, Harrison and Smith are fairly inexperienced, he could help in an almost consultancy role.

I want the best person for the role, in the same vein as some people desperately want an ex-Tiger, there's a lot of posters who are dead against the idea of an ex-Tiger. Give me a coach who has a good reputation for coaching, experience within the coaching set up and that players will respect and if they've been a Tiger before? Grand. If not, who cares, they're a Tiger now.
I do agree that the best person should get the job no matter what their heritage, and it wasn’t aimed at you the comment re ex Tigers. Take Vesty for example yes he has got some young backs running pretty patterns at Saints and scoring some lovely trys, but to date he has achieved nothing and arguably Saints are now a lesser team since Boyd left.
I do repeat though that Richards should not even be mentioned and I would have some serious questions about just who was running the club if he was.
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Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by tripeandonions »

I hear that an experienced, international level head coach has just become available
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