Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Scott1 »

Townsend or McFarland for me
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
ads
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by ads »

The comment about no transition period rule Townsend out for me.

Obvs Cotter and McFarland wont be at the WC as well though.

Middleton is just a feeling though. I'd be happy with either of the above.
Last edited by ads on Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Drixtonian
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Drixtonian »

This dates me but it brings to mind the line from an early Moody Blues song - "If you gotta go then you had better go now". Let those with a passion for the club take over coaching for the rest of the season. Last Saturday was the first time in my life I didn't mind Scotland beating England. Bitter? You bet your life I am.
Chobbsy
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3083
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:51 am
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Chobbsy »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:31 pm
Robespierre wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:25 pm Vern Cotter would be a good candidate as head coach but who to appoint to be responsible for attack and defence, I've no idea.
One person I definitely do not want is Erasmus, who's the very last person I'd like to see at Welford Road.
Agree, think for me Erasmus is slightly above MoC in who I want, but not much

Preference order for me.

Townsend
Cotter
McFarland
Middleton



Those saying Robertson seem to forget he's contracted for another couple of years with a release clause for an international role. He wants the AB job if not that he'll be a T1 International coach or stay where he is.
The question was who we would like, not who will we get, I would like no love Scot Robertson, I would also like a Bentley and a villa in Barbados
God created rugby so footballers have heros too
markharbtiger
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:53 am

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by markharbtiger »

Only just seen the latest news re departures. Seems like we've been mostly cleaned out! I say mostly because there are some very able assistant coaches left...
Loob19
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 6:09 pm
Location: Broadstairs

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Loob19 »

Just catching up with the days news so, apologies if this thought has already been presented.

Does the fact that the club has announced WW and AW leaving mean they’ve got an announcement up their sleeves?

Popcorn Wednesday anybody?
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Scott1 »

What’s Simon Middleton done beside the women’s coaching? (Not being sexist btw before someone pipes up,I’m just genuinely interested. I know nothing about him. Has he the credentials? )
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7418
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

I thought when we announced Borthwick way back in 2020 he was likely to go to England and take his team with him.

I don't see this as asset stripping, I see it as the cost we chose to pay when we went the Borthwick route.

Let's go back to 2019.

England post finishing the World Cup want to give Jones one more tilt at the World Cup. However they have identified their preference for taking over from him in 2023, Borthwick, a great coah who's been instrumental in the World Cup run, who they believe can do the job. Only issue is he's never been the top dog anywhere despite an impressive CV.

Leicester Tigers the fallen giants on decline with a massively unbalanced squad have got little bright spots such as an Academy winning titles. However they have been going from one coaching basket case to another.

The two come together, basically Borthwick tries the Tigers job, he makes a success and in all likelihood becomes the England Head Coach. He gets to build his team and get backed. Tigers, who at the time, with the squad situation and league position are struggling to to recruit a top coach decide that they will take the punt. Yes they may lose their head coach and a significant portion of the coaching team, but if Borthwick's successful enough then suddenly we're in a better position to recruit a new coaching team once he leaves.

It was a gamble. It brought us back to the top table when we could have faded further still. It brought us silverware. It leaves a BIG hole but leaves us able to recruit a top coach, not just someone who may have a go, it leaves an attractive squad that many coaches want to coach

A big gamble yes, but I think the club went in to this knowing at the end of this season they may lose most coaches to England (ok 2 went early)
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Tigerbeat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7250
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: The big wide world

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Tigerbeat »

Scott1 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:05 pm What’s Simon Middleton done beside the women’s coaching? (Not being sexist btw before someone pipes up,I’m just genuinely interested. I know nothing about him. Has he the credentials? )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Middleton
SUPPORT THE MATT HAMPSON TRUST
www.matthampson.co.uk
Tigersunited
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Tigersunited »

AViewFromLe2 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:14 pm In amongst the usual corporate statement from Andrea, there were two notable bits said. One i believe, the other i do not believe.

The bit i believe is where she mentions about wanting someone to lead for next season & we do not want a transition period. This I believe and I think it points towards who the next HC will be. I suspect it is someone who can come in and tale charge July 1st and have a pre-season underway with a new coaching set up. As a result, i think Gregor becomes less likely and someone like Cotter more likely. May not be Cotter but someone of that ilk.

The bit I do not believe is where she mentions that they're still interviewing. Personally I don't believe that. The timing does not make sense from a Leicester POV if that is still the case. Leicester could have asked England to hold on with the announcement if they were still needing to wrap things up or still midway through a process.

In terms of us moving forward, the reality is that we are an attractive proposition from a squad perspective. You will have a core 28 senior players that have been here for at least a season, that is packed full of youthful talent that are already ahead of their development. That is combined with 4 confirmed new arrivals (with more on the way) that add to what we have and improve the squad. There is also another 10-15 in the academy and senior academy that are highly regarded. Any new coach will have a lot of talent at their disposal to take us through the next world cup cycle.

The World Cup will be tough for us, there is no doubt about that, however we may be helped. The schedule for next season has not been confirmed yet but the plan is to have as little overlap between the Prem and WC as possible. The plan is to get the Prem Cup out of the way during the WC to avoid those issues. Last time the WC final clashed with Round 3 of the Prem so we could get our England boys back sooner, as personally i don't see England making the final. We will also benefit from our England lads having an Aled Walters pre-season whilst in the training camp, so another silver lining there.
[/quote

Why would you think she would lie? Do you know something you are not telling us?
As for the RFU and us asking them to hold off on announcements, I think they have shown their contempt for club rugby and don’t not believe the act in the interests of anyone or thing but themselves.
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Scott1 »

Tigerbeat wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:08 pm
Scott1 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:05 pm What’s Simon Middleton done beside the women’s coaching? (Not being sexist btw before someone pipes up,I’m just genuinely interested. I know nothing about him. Has he the credentials? )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Middleton
Thanks! Not for me,not enough recent experience in the men’s game and they are two different games
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
mol2
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: Cosby

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by mol2 »

Not sure as to credentials but far more than Murphy & Wigglesworth have in the mens’ game at Leeds for 11 years before going to the RFU.
However the club has probably learned that internal appointments of inexperienced coaches with limited outside influence doesn’t work.
Not all outsiders worked to be fair, Loffreda struggled and we can only speculate. Meyer was gone as soon as he arrived. Dwyer and Borthwick had success. Paddy Howard was the only one with limited experience who succeeded but probably the exception.

The cynic in me says all 4 were signed as a package and we declined to let it happen if the 4 were to leave mid-season. I doubt England would have stumped up the money to get all 4 immediately, it was bad enough losing Borthwick and Sinfield mid season and this was the compromise.

This explains why Evans was signed on a temporary basis rather than permanently.
Last edited by mol2 on Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tigers86asw
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 871
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:46 pm

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by Tigers86asw »

I trust Pinchen to have a plan. That may sound naive but I have faith.
TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7418
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

So we're having a big clear out of coaches.

With enough gone we may look at restructuring the team.

Do people think we may go back to a DOR and HC?

I'm not sure we will especially with Leigh Jones still in place (we assume he's still in place)

I think 70:30 we'll stick with the new head honcho being the Head coach, but thought I'd float the idea
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7057
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Tigers post Borthwick - next Head Coach?

Post by sam16111986 »

Tigers86asw wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:24 pm I trust Pinchen to have a plan. That may sound naive but I have faith.
She's come across as pretty shrewd so far.

I'm more than happy for the club to be taking the process seriously. We've got together a list of possible coaches, done our due diligence to refine that list to a shortlist and are now nearly finished the interview process. All seems very logical and professional. We haven't just gone, "he'd be good throw some money at him" or "he's a famous Tigers he'll lead us back to the good old days". The names we are being linked with are coaches who have done good things at good sized clubs and some internationally.

Townsend, Cotter, McDonald, MacFarland and Rennie all linked. I think I'd be happy with any of them.

Be interesting where we look for assistants. As Borthwick demonstrated with Sinfield getting the right second in command etc is very important.
Post Reply