Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

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sapajo
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by sapajo »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:47 am The officials applied the current interpretation of the rules correctly for the Semi/van Wyk decisions. My criticism isn't of them. It's of the law makers.

From a player welfare perspective, it's unfathomable that we deem Burns nearly having his head taken off from an out of control, high speed forearm as a yellow card. Yes, he had a lower body height, but we simply cannot 'mitigate' when someone is tackling so recklessly. Semi's tackle was considerably more likely to cause a brain injury than van Wyk's.
Given the tackle on Burn merited a yellow card and the tackle on Genge merited a red card, how come it was only Burns that had to go off for an HIA :smt017
Last edited by sapajo on Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by Big Dai »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:47 am The officials applied the current interpretation of the rules correctly for the Semi/van Wyk decisions. My criticism isn't of them. It's of the law makers.

From a player welfare perspective, it's unfathomable that we deem Burns nearly having his head taken off from an out of control, high speed forearm as a yellow card. Yes, he had a lower body height, but we simply cannot 'mitigate' when someone is tackling so recklessly. Semi's tackle was considerably more likely to cause a brain injury than van Wyk's.
One could be uncharitable here in comparing the targets when considering liklihoodof damage?. Fly half v prop.

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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by trendylfj »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:47 am The officials applied the current interpretation of the rules correctly for the Semi/van Wyk decisions. My criticism isn't of them. It's of the law makers.

From a player welfare perspective, it's unfathomable that we deem Burns nearly having his head taken off from an out-of-control, high speed forearm as a yellow card. Yes, he had a lower body height, but we simply cannot 'mitigate' when someone is tackling so recklessly. Semi's tackle was considerably more likely to cause a brain injury than van Wyk's.
Totally agree - we may not like the conclusion or the fact that FB's knee was not ON the ground but he did lower to give the officials a reason not to send Semi off whereas VW's involved no lowering. It was a totally reckless challenge with one intent but the lawmakers have given the officials a set of instructions that they correctly applied. Until the lawmakers find a way of protecting all players from the exorcet missiles striking their heads we will continue to have players suffering brain injuries. My preference would be to take into account the speed and recklessness of the tackling player as mitigating circumstance the other way - ie - they mitigate down so why not the reverse - mitigate upwards to cancel out downwards mitigations because of the high degree of recklessness
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by Big Dai »

The other point for me in the comparison of the two cards is the relative percentage contribution of the two protagonists to the energy of the collision.

Burns is stood still (half m Vsquared =0) and gets clobbered by a massive object contributing everything to the collision energy.

Genge v Van Wyk is much more 50 50. Two bulls locking horns.

Too upright, certainly but more "mitigateable" in my book because it is an attempt to tackle, all be it a poor one, rather than an out of control, late hit.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by PAW2 »

Some good news however.
Ellis Genge has now been found.
He was in Dan Coles pocket all the time :smt002
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by nicmattyg »

For Kelly to slot back in and pick up exactly where he left off after 10 months out is unbelievable. He was superb and we have really missed him. Goodey on twitter saying he needs to be England’s 12 moving forwards, and I’d agree.

We were coasting in that game until the final quarter, this is where the likes of Ford would’ve steered us to victory through territory/tactical kicks and I think something Pollard is much more suited to than burns.

Van Wyk offers nothing to this team unfortunately, we need Cronin back asap, Whitcombe as bench cover.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by mol2 »

Ladgaga can’t be too far off either. I think he was warming up when we played London Irish.
Hopefully Cronin isn’t out long term.
Van Wyk hasn’t impressed so far and his red card may well make up the minds of the coaches that we are better off without him in the 23. If Whitcombe had been on the bench (instead of Van Wyk) earlier in the season we may have been in the top 4 by now instead of wasting him in the cup side.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by Scott1 »

mol2 wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:11 am Ladgaga can’t be too far off either. I think he was warming up when we played London Irish.
Hopefully Cronin isn’t out long term.
Van Wyk hasn’t impressed so far and his red card may well make up the minds of the coaches that we are better off without him in the 23. If Whitcombe had been on the bench (instead of Van Wyk) earlier in the season we may have been in the top 4 by now instead of wasting him in the cup side.
Yes,think they got that wrong with Whitcombe. And that isn't hindsight,he did enough last season to prove he's good enough to be in the first 23 week in week out.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by kpj tiger »

So having had a quick look I make it 9 league points dropped from winnable positions so far this season

3 points vs Exeter
3 points vs Bath
3 points vs Bristol

Get all those and we are sitting in 2nd by 1 point
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

Scott1 wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:37 am
mol2 wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:11 am Ladgaga can’t be too far off either. I think he was warming up when we played London Irish.
Hopefully Cronin isn’t out long term.
Van Wyk hasn’t impressed so far and his red card may well make up the minds of the coaches that we are better off without him in the 23. If Whitcombe had been on the bench (instead of Van Wyk) earlier in the season we may have been in the top 4 by now instead of wasting him in the cup side.
Yes,think they got that wrong with Whitcombe. And that isn't hindsight,he did enough last season to prove he's good enough to be in the first 23 week in week out.
My view after last season was that the Number 1 shirt was a fight between Whitcombe & Cronin. The only thing possibly early this season is that they have been concentrating on conditioning with Whitcombe, much like it appeared they did with Heyes early last season.

What is obvious is Whitcombe doesn't look out of place.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by westwinds31 »

The question I’m sure Borthwick & co are asking is “why are we not performing in the final quarter ?” Last season it was a strength, we battled for the full 80, this season it’s like we drop off. With Aled in place, I’d be surprised if it’s fitness related. Ok, there’s been some disruption with internationals and injuries, but our depth is as good as it’s ever been. I think last season we got the rub of the green and we don’t seem to be getting it so far this season. We’re just lacking a bit of control in the key moments. Fix that and we’ll be back in business.

I’m sure we train with 14 men regularly, so I’m surprised we capitulated like we did.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by RagingBull »

Honestly has our depth so far been stronger than last season?

Last season we had a bench v Bristol of
16. Dolly, 17. Leatigaga, 18. Heyes, 19. Chessum, 20. Wiese
21. Wigglesworth, 22. Hegarty, 23. Porter

I do think we are missing Dolly's explosiveness off the bench somewhat also.
Leatigaga needs to be on the bench above Van Wyk in these cases. If Cracknell is fit I would've preferred to see Martin as lock sub and Cracknell as back row sub.

If Cracknell is injured our back row options are very thin.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by TigerCam »

sapajo wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:54 am
CrumblingTerrace wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:47 am The officials applied the current interpretation of the rules correctly for the Semi/van Wyk decisions. My criticism isn't of them. It's of the law makers.

From a player welfare perspective, it's unfathomable that we deem Burns nearly having his head taken off from an out of control, high speed forearm as a yellow card. Yes, he had a lower body height, but we simply cannot 'mitigate' when someone is tackling so recklessly. Semi's tackle was considerably more likely to cause a brain injury than van Wyk's.
Given the tackle on Burn merited a yellow card and the tackle on Genge merited a red card, how come it was only Burns that had to go off for an HIA :smt017
IMO both were red given the interpretation. Head contact is head contact - red card, no mitigation then players will eventually sort it out.
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by KiwiTig »

Was really pleased for Whitcombe
sapajo
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Re: Tigers v Bristol Bears (A) - Saturday 03rd December 2022 KO 8-00pm

Post by sapajo »

A lot of noise on twitter over an alleged gouging by Vui on Chessum. Apparently both Chessum and Cole immediately complained to CMK who dismissed it stating its a matter for the Citing Officer. Video certainly gives cause for concern but no doubt it will not be cited.
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