Next England Head Coach (Pre World Cup)

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ay2oh
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by ay2oh »

sapajo wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:47 pm
TiltonTiger wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:39 pm Would be nice if there was an unequivocal statement from the club, one way or the other just so we know what’s happening. I won’t hold my breath though
Agreed. So much for the so called Tigers family which is nothing more than a club construct
Do you mean they want to be a viable business going forward. Yes I agree
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markharbtiger
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by markharbtiger »

ay2oh wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:47 pm
markharbtiger wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:43 pm Well, I feel sure our CEO is working very hard right now to ensure the club isn't left denuded. But I have to say, if I was Borthwick, I'm not sure I'd want to take England into a World Cup with so little time left before it to do anything very much. The problem becomes acute if he takes over before the 6 nations and England performs poorly. It makes most sense to stick with Cockers until November 2023 for all sorts of reasons. Borthwick has always struck me as very careful and someone who plays the percentages. Post World Cup has to be the smart move if it can be arranged.
Post World Cup makes sense but can’t see it happening. RFU want England to have a chance of winning it so will want to give the new coach plenty of time to bed in.
I doubt anyone would consider 9 months 'plenty of time'. And as Cockers is covering for now, it's going to be less than 9 months isn't it
GB72
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by GB72 »

Lot of things I find interesting here.

To not appoint before the 6 Nations is suicide for all concerned. England would be appointing a new coach with only a couple of warm up matches to get the squad working and the coach would be on a hiding to nothing. All of this is with the proviso that this is the RFU involved but I cannot see anyone going for that.

Interim has not realy been defined. Could be until after the world cup, could be the 6 nations or it could be as little as a deflecting tactic to take the pressure off SB whilst negotiations take place and RC is only there to do the day to day admin for a few weeks.

Could be that SB is not actually the one and the RFU want a bit of time to talk to another canditate.

So much up in the air with the only clear bit being that EJ has gone. Personally, I think that we will be losing our coaching staff before Xmas and this is just a brief handover period that we have now.
Tigers86asw
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Tigers86asw »

Rfu have botched it. There have not been any suitable out of contract coaches to replace Jones for several years, now they are stuck in a hole as they have to replace him but no one available who they want. They will have to pay off tigers- likely for several staff and those coaches will only have, maximum, 9 months.

I can’t see how anyone wins in this scenario unless Borthwick wins the World Cup. The whole thing looks ill considered and naive.
markharbtiger
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by markharbtiger »

GB72 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:54 pm Lot of things I find interesting here.

To not appoint before the 6 Nations is suicide for all concerned. England would be appointing a new coach with only a couple of warm up matches to get the squad working and the coach would be on a hiding to nothing. All of this is with the proviso that this is the RFU involved but I cannot see anyone going for that.

Interim has not realy been defined. Could be until after the world cup, could be the 6 nations or it could be as little as a deflecting tactic to take the pressure off SB whilst negotiations take place and RC is only there to do the day to day admin for a few weeks.

Could be that SB is not actually the one and the RFU want a bit of time to talk to another canditate.

So much up in the air with the only clear bit being that EJ has gone. Personally, I think that we will be losing our coaching staff before Xmas and this is just a brief handover period that we have now.
I think you are right that we really don't know what 'interim' means. Seeing things from Cockers point of view, would he have agreed to a few weeks?
The situation seems to be various degrees of awful for all concerned.
Louis
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Louis »

kpj tiger wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:49 pm I'm surprised how angry this whole fiasco has made me given my general apathy for England rugby since the last WC final, why keep backing Eddie until this close to a WC and then sack him? Its just so spineless. Say what you like about Eddie but he's statistically the best coach England have had and is a WC specialist. Personally I think if the Journo's hadn't turned on Eddie he'd have kept his job which says everything about the RFU.

Also how if Jones is going are the whole of the RFU's upper leadership not following him, this wouldn't be allowed to happen in any world outside of sport.
Apart from the apathy re: England, I actually agree with this very strongly.
Scuttle
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Scuttle »

Matt Giteau tweeting sacking EJ would be the silliest thing RFU could do to English rugby
. Reckons he plans and plans and gets it right for World Cups.....he has a point
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

So the RFU have bought themselves time to negotiate with Tigers. However unless they are also negotiating with Robertson then they've not really bought themselves any leverage...


What odds on us releasing Borthwick on a consultancy basis for the 6N yet remain with us till June? Doubtful but I've seen worse ideas...
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Louis
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Louis »

Also, Cockers came on at Tigers as a caretaker IIRC. Made a big impact then, yes, had a poor end. Big impact at Edinburgh. Now with England, could the same happen? Could caretaker turn permanent?
Rugbygramps
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Rugbygramps »

Louis wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:05 pm Also, Cockers came on at Tigers as a caretaker IIRC. Made a big impact then, yes, had a poor end. Big impact at Edinburgh. Now with England, could the same happen? Could caretaker turn permanent?
Rugbys equivalent of Sam Alladyce.
KiwiTig
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by KiwiTig »

That’s funny
ads
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by ads »

Louis wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:05 pm Also, Cockers came on at Tigers as a caretaker IIRC. Made a big impact then, yes, had a poor end. Big impact at Edinburgh. Now with England, could the same happen? Could caretaker turn permanent?
Add Toulon to that list as well.
GB72
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by GB72 »

markharbtiger wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:02 pm
GB72 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:54 pm Lot of things I find interesting here.

To not appoint before the 6 Nations is suicide for all concerned. England would be appointing a new coach with only a couple of warm up matches to get the squad working and the coach would be on a hiding to nothing. All of this is with the proviso that this is the RFU involved but I cannot see anyone going for that.

Interim has not realy been defined. Could be until after the world cup, could be the 6 nations or it could be as little as a deflecting tactic to take the pressure off SB whilst negotiations take place and RC is only there to do the day to day admin for a few weeks.

Could be that SB is not actually the one and the RFU want a bit of time to talk to another canditate.

So much up in the air with the only clear bit being that EJ has gone. Personally, I think that we will be losing our coaching staff before Xmas and this is just a brief handover period that we have now.
I think you are right that we really don't know what 'interim' means. Seeing things from Cockers point of view, would he have agreed to a few weeks?
The situation seems to be various degrees of awful for all concerned.
I guess someone has to be seen to be in charge and deal with the day to day stuff until the new coach is in place and help with the handover once appointed. Alternative may have been to go with EJ especially if it is SB and he has already started discussing staff options. Plus, if there is someone in charge already, it could help slightly with the negotiations as they do not seem quite as desperate.
Louis
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Louis »

ads wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:24 pm
Louis wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:05 pm Also, Cockers came on at Tigers as a caretaker IIRC. Made a big impact then, yes, had a poor end. Big impact at Edinburgh. Now with England, could the same happen? Could caretaker turn permanent?
Add Toulon to that list as well.
True, but I don't remember if he revolutionised Toulon.
Wes
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)

Post by Wes »

It seems that yet again the RFU have completely cocked this up. I guess they felt they had no choice but to replace Jones but if they had any idea that this was going to happen, why have they not been talking to Warren, RoG, SB, SR etc, surely they would know what was going to happen next and not have to put a statement out out saying they would soon complete their recruitment process (which is for anew coach to take over middle of next year....)
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