You’ve hit the nail on the head kpj. Think what you like about Haskell, but his view on the Good, the Bad and the rugby is a good listen. We (media and fans) rarely consider the balanced view. It’s “sack him” “he’s rubbish” etc there has to be consequences every time, it’s ridiculous. There even people on here saying “I was right….I told you” - it’s madness ! You’re right he’s got a good record has Eddie, but it’s all about the now and “off with his head”. All the squad get another go at it for the 6 Nations. I mean, Jones hasn’t told the players to give stupid penalties away, or not compete at the scrum. That’s a player thing, not a coaching thing. As Haskell says, he’s not in the camp but he’s been not long retired to speak to current players who all sing Jones’ praises, not to keep their place in the squad, but privately he’s heard nothing but good things. Something isn’t right, but to get rid of someone with a record at tournaments like Eddie seems a bit previous. Hill, Mako, Billy V, Genge etc are all still in a job and have a chance to right the wrongs.kpj tiger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:49 pm I'm surprised how angry this whole fiasco has made me given my general apathy for England rugby since the last WC final, why keep backing Eddie until this close to a WC and then sack him? Its just so spineless. Say what you like about Eddie but he's statistically the best coach England have had and is a WC specialist. Personally I think if the Journo's hadn't turned on Eddie he'd have kept his job which says everything about the RFU.
Also how if Jones is going are the whole of the RFU's upper leadership not following him, this wouldn't be allowed to happen in any world outside of sport.
Next England Head Coach (Pre World Cup)
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
The ridiculously high turnover of staff should give everyone a clue about Jones! Plus why did the RFU think that a coach with a notoriously short shelf life was all of a sudden going to change? All the signs and evidence was there I'm afraid
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Easy mistake to make. I do find that the football analogy helps. Whilst many do not like to think that we get caught up in the same things as our round ball cousins, what we have here is as much a transfer as and deal for a football player and so the actual deal is based on the respective values to each party rather than then amounts detailed in any contract. We value hving SB until the end of the season highly, we value having all 3 coaches very highly and so the RFU have to find a figure that matches the value that we place on having those coaches until the end of the season and on that basis, 7 figures does not sound unreasonable.Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:47 pmVery true and the rugby debate was very enjoyable. I also do thank you for the clarification re correct compensationGB72 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:45 pmTrue but it means that it can be put to one side and you and I can continue to talk about rugby otherwise I know what I am like and I would not let it go and that is not good for anyone or the forum to see us going back and forth.Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:42 pm
If you feel that is necessary then fair enough seems a little OTT to me
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Was that down to Jones or were some of them simply not good enough ? Borthwick worked well with Eddie, as did Wisemantel where we had a brilliant attack. They moved on. I think the current assistant coaches aren’t exactly earning their corn. I suspect we’ll have an average 6 Nations now…will folk be calling for Cockers to leave at that point ? The majority have got what they wanted…..now what happens ?
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Many on here dont want him to even startwestwinds31 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:07 pmWas that down to Jones or were some of them simply not good enough ? Borthwick worked well with Eddie, as did Wisemantel where we had a brilliant attack. They moved on. I think the current assistant coaches aren’t exactly earning their corn. I suspect we’ll have an average 6 Nations now…will folk be calling for Cockers to leave at that point ? The majority have got what they wanted…..now what happens ?
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Showing my lack of legal knowledge again but is that allowed, or are there different rules regarding assistant coaches to Head Coaches.Jimmy Skitz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:14 pm Telegraph saying we won't allow Steve to take Sir Kev and Aled with him
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
They most likely don't have the potential break clause in their contracts if England come calling.Rugbygramps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:17 pmShowing my lack of legal knowledge again but is that allowed, or are there different rules regarding assistant coaches to Head Coaches.Jimmy Skitz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:14 pm Telegraph saying we won't allow Steve to take Sir Kev and Aled with him
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Common denominator?westwinds31 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:07 pmWas that down to Jones or were some of them simply not good enough ? Borthwick worked well with Eddie, as did Wisemantel where we had a brilliant attack. They moved on. I think the current assistant coaches aren’t exactly earning their corn. I suspect we’ll have an average 6 Nations now…will folk be calling for Cockers to leave at that point ? The majority have got what they wanted…..now what happens ?
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
I also think there needs to be significant compensation coming to Tigers. Simply buying Borthwick out of his contract when we have to factor in the varied negative knock-ons for arguably several years, seems wholly insufficient. Again, yet another example of how the relationship between club and country needs a radical overhaul. I am still wondering why we've had our head coach poached and not Sarries or Exeter?
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
They obviously feel he is the best man for the job. The other 2 May also have ruled themselves out.markharbtiger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:06 pm I also think there needs to be significant compensation coming to Tigers. Simply buying Borthwick out of his contract when we have to factor in the varied negative knock-ons for arguably several years, seems wholly insufficient. Again, yet another example of how the relationship between club and country needs a radical overhaul. I am still wondering why we've had our head coach poached and not Sarries or Exeter?
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
What we need to do is use the "time" from the interim announcement to find out how much our ideal candidate(s) cost and then make sure the RFU compensates us that much
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
I would expect Andrea to be on itTigerFeetSteve wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:16 pm What we need to do is use the "time" from the interim announcement to find out how much our ideal candidate(s) cost and then make sure the RFU compensates us that much
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Do you not think that Borthwick was sent to us by RFU to learn to be a head coach, having achieved that he is resuming at RFU, slightly earlier than expected?
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Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
I'm just incredulous that *ANYONE* would take on England 9 months from a World Cup. All very very disappointing as a Tigers supporter. I'd better say no more on this subject.
Re: Next England Head Coach (Pre &/or Post World Cup)
Spot on or at least ball parkTigerFeetSteve wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:16 pm What we need to do is use the "time" from the interim announcement to find out how much our ideal candidate(s) cost and then make sure the RFU compensates us that much
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity