Club/International fixture clashes

[ay2oh]

Why is there so much difficulty in structuring the season so there are no clashes between club and country. All it does is cause lots of bad feeling between the RFU and the clubs and their supporters. If you did away with the premiership cup and re-jig the fixtures so that there were no clashes everyone would be happy and we the supporters who pay good money for our season tickets would get to see our best players for most of our games not half of them.
Hopefully if the premiership is reduced to 10 clubs next season this will happen but I wouldn’t bet on it.

[GB72]

Why is there so much difficulty in structuring the season so there are no clashes between club and country. All it does is cause lots of bad feeling between the RFU and the clubs and their supporters. If you did away with the premiership cup and re-jig the fixtures so that there were no clashes everyone would be happy and we the supporters who pay good money for our season tickets would get to see our best players for most of our games not half of them.
Hopefully if the premiership is reduced to 10 clubs next season this will happen but I wouldn’t bet on it.

I totally agree with the sentiment but the premiership cup is mainly played on weekdays with a development side, It is rare fo them to be weekend fixtures. With that in mind, there are simply not enough weekends to encompass both league and european matches and have a break for the Autumn Internationals and the 6 Nations. There may be more room if the number of teams are reduced in the Prem.

You then have the cash flow issues. Look at the panic caused by not having a home match for a month due to club collapses. Times that by 4 if the club had to close down for 5-7 weeks in Autumn and 8-10 weeks over the 6 Nations. Plus you need to add player rest periods into that. Also not sure how you can maintain public interest in a league that stops abruptly for for a month or more at a time.

As matters stand, shutting up shop for the 2 international breaks is simply not feasible. What you would need to do is move at least one of the breaks to a post season one but that would scupper the summer tours which, if we do not go on those, the big teams are not going to come here in Autumn and the RFU will not give up that cash. Nor will the players, reduce the number of internationals and they lose £17k a shot.

Sadly the clubs have become a bit of a laughing stock as they put in all of the effort to develop players and then hardly get to see them in the shirt whilst the developed players double their salary by playing elsewhere.

The whole system from top to bottom needs looking at but it will not happen.

[Hot_Charlie]

To be fair, the Prem Cup has only become mid-week this season and what seemed to be the reason it became mid-week (the expansion to 13 teams) has now potentially gone (how long for we don't know).

The other problem is the domestic/european interaction, which has become messier. Once it was three blocks of 2 weekends for group games, then 1/4s, 1/2s etc. Now it's grown legs, starts 2 months later and the R16, 1/4s, 1/2s and final take up a month of fixtures post February. The issue is if you then break for the international period in the current construct is that, as GB says, clubs and fans have huge gaps in their schedules. Not good for cash-flow and not good for fan engagement.

[ay2oh]

If the premiership is reduced to 10 teams next season it gives us an extra 6 week-ends free compared with the beginning of this season so hopefully clashes will be far less.

[Hot_Charlie]

If the premiership is reduced to 10 teams next season it gives us an extra 6 week-ends free compared with the beginning of this season so hopefully clashes will be far less.

The issue there is whether it stays at 10 teams. No point introducing something that only works for one season.

[GB72]

If the premiership is reduced to 10 teams next season it gives us an extra 6 week-ends free compared with the beginning of this season so hopefully clashes will be far less.

that still does not deal with the cash flow and other issues associated with shutting clubs down for an extended period. Firstly, not sure that 10 teams is viable straight away. It could work if the other clubs received the TV money that would have gone to the 3 clubs leaving the league but things have gone strangely quiet on that front. Also, can the Championship fit in the extra teams if that is where they go.

Personally, I can see the season being shortened in the interests of player welfare rather than doing anything to help the clubs.

The suggestion that I have made before the help the situation would that, except in the year leading up to a world cup, players can only be picked for either the autumn internationals or the 6 nations but not both and the summer tour is a development team. Will never happen as players will not vote to lose circa £100k in revenue, the Southern Hemisphere teams would not be happy if a full squad is not sent on tour and the RFU simply do not care about the clubs and just want money.

Sadly I suspect from an RFU point of view, few tears would be shed if the club sides disappeared as professional entities and they could introduce fully RFU controlled franchises.

[ay2oh]

Agree that the RFU don’t give a toss about the clubs and just want central contracting to give them full control of the players. About time some young blood was introduced to RFU to generate new ideas and try and improve the poor relationship with the clubs.
Regarding the structure of the premiership as far as I know a 10 team league is high on the agenda and with Worcester and Wasps gone is very possible although could be 11 next season

[GB72]

Agree that the RFU don’t give a toss about the clubs and just want central contracting to give them full control of the players. About time some young blood was introduced to RFU to generate new ideas and try and improve the poor relationship with the clubs.
Regarding the structure of the premiership as far as I know a 10 team league is high on the agenda and with Worcester and Wasps gone is very possible although could be 11 next season

The viability of that would potentially depend on what happens to the P shares. If they revert to the league and the money is split between the remaining clubs then it could be viable but at present, those shares remain with Worcester and Wasps and they still would get a percentage of revenue. As planning starts for next season, that needs sorting as it could cause all sorts of legal wrangling.

[ay2oh]

Thought you lost the p shares if you went into administration.

[GB72]

Thought you lost the p shares if you went into administration.

That was the assumption but it has all gone very queit on that front.

[aslongaswebeatsaints]

Completely agree with the sentiment. To me the PRC could be an excellent competition to be held during the International period. As many have said, use rule changes to make it a proper development competition instead of a 'momentum builder' or 'means to get some silverware'. Alternatively, be more radical, it seems the ideal competition to bring the Prem and Championship together for the benefit of both.

Rant on! It all just smells of decay doesn't it? Along with nearly all other issues in rugby, this seems more about the hierarchy protecting the status quo and their own interests than taking rugby into the 21st Century. Instead we get the usual blah blah blah. Meanwhile World Rugby, Prem, International Rugby, European Rugby all do their own thing and sod each other, everyone else and the wider sport. And with the old fashioned view that more games = more revenue, they fail to realise that its quality not quantity that you need in the 21st Century. Instead of more games have a better spectacle that attracts more fans per game! A half burnt pie, beer in a plastic cup and occasional spurt of flame doesn't hack it anymore. I know some won't like such change but looking around, most of my fellow fans are all of a certain generation and getting older together and I simply don't see the younger generation turning up. They want to pay to got to a party with tech, not a morgue.

I understand that this looks very different when you're a club facing the hard fiscal realities of fighting cash flow in a debt ridden sport but this isn't the club that needs to sort this. This is about strategy and where World Rugby, RFU etc need to actually take risk and lead. Otherwise, what's the point in them being there.

[ads]

I agree, and I've said it on other threads before but the game needs a change. I like the idea of a 10 team prem and a 10 team championship, ringfenced* with 1 up 1 down between them.

Play a cup competition during international periods comprising of all 20 teams, prem teams can only play academy/players with no international caps. Someone said we'd gain 6 weeks by going down to 10 teams. 5 groups of 4, top team from each and the best 3 runners up going into quarters then semi's then Final, thats 6 weeks.

*Ringfenced but oportunities for teams to apply for admission based on being the best of the rest for a while and if there's and obvious lame duck in the championship....

Not perfect but something like that could work.

[Hot_Charlie]

Agree. 10 and 10 then with a Cup competition of some variety that encompasses both divisions perhaps.

[Scott1]

Feels like Groundhog Day

[trendylfj]

Let's be realistic - World rugby and the various national organisations will not stop until they get a rejig of the calendar which suits them and their dreams. It does not take anyone with an ounce of sense to aim to avoid Prem fixtures during the various windows which need to be shortened to start with. No arguments from me regarding the prep week or the post-comp rest period but why they have to have rest weeks during the comp is beyond me. I know they will say their main concern is for player welfare and the need for proper rest but they could ask for more players to be in the competition squads and use rotation during the internationals just like the clubs do and the clubs would be happy to release more players and play the Prem cup with their development squads during those periods. A more radical suggestion would be to play an expanded Prem cup including either the championship sides or sides from other countries in the UK but that is just my own slant on that cup comp which might attract larger crowds.