England Squad - Autumn Internationals

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ay2oh
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by ay2oh »

The most frustrating thing about it all is that England have the players to be a really good team but Eddie does not pick them. You can’t bully teams like South Africa but if you have pace you always have a chance instead we persist with players past their best like Tuilagi , May and Nowell. Where is Radwan , Arundel, Haskell-Collins etc. These autumn internationals was a chance to have a look a some of these players with no silverware at stake but he decided to stick with the status quo. Time to have a clear out.
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Rugbygramps »

Unfortunately Eddie isn’t going anywhere and he knows it. The RFU are saying they might just break even this year so they can’t afford to pay him off. On top of that the likes of Bill Sweeney have no respect for the fans or the club game, as shown in his recent testimony regarding Worcester and Wasps demise.
Eddie has surrounded himself with yes men both on and off the pitch who won’t say it as it is. Then you have the likes of Paul Grayson who can clearly see all the issues, but is concerned about being black listed by the RFU and thus it affecting his livelihood if he speaks out.
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Scott1 »

SCW was quite gentle tbf,I was expecting him to go after the RFU and EJ big time. But what else can he say that hasn't been said before umpteen times? It's like Groundhog Day,along with the BBBOC the RFU are a waste of time!
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by jgriffin »

Really obvious both Vunipolas day has passed. In the absence of Lawes Ribbans looks the most likely, until Chessum returns. For me the scrum was targeted as England's weak spot - let's be honest, would Genge, George, Cole be bullied in that way? TH more of a problem than LH. One of Smith and Farrell has to go - for me, Smith. Ford to displace Farrell if he returns to fitness. Manu, May, Nowell need replacing. The squad is stale and past its sell by date.
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Grimlish
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Grimlish »

Rugbygramps wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:27 am Unfortunately Eddie isn’t going anywhere and he knows it. The RFU are saying they might just break even this year so they can’t afford to pay him off. On top of that the likes of Bill Sweeney have no respect for the fans or the club game, as shown in his recent testimony regarding Worcester and Wasps demise.
Eddie has surrounded himself with yes men both on and off the pitch who won’t say it as it is. Then you have the likes of Paul Grayson who can clearly see all the issues, but is concerned about being black listed by the RFU and thus it affecting his livelihood if he speaks out.
Not many would agree that Cockers is a yes man, not least the man himself! But then again Cockers is another who may be in bunker mode, and so not really in a position to influence Eddie in a positive way. The media have the man in their sights which only reinforces the problem that failed experiments have created. The natural reaction is to dig deeper in the bunker.

Eddie has not been wrong to experiment and is right to try to generate depth. The problem for me lies in sticking with players who underperform and systems that are neither working nor showing signs they could work.
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Rugbygramps »

Grimlish wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:27 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:27 am Unfortunately Eddie isn’t going anywhere and he knows it. The RFU are saying they might just break even this year so they can’t afford to pay him off. On top of that the likes of Bill Sweeney have no respect for the fans or the club game, as shown in his recent testimony regarding Worcester and Wasps demise.
Eddie has surrounded himself with yes men both on and off the pitch who won’t say it as it is. Then you have the likes of Paul Grayson who can clearly see all the issues, but is concerned about being black listed by the RFU and thus it affecting his livelihood if he speaks out.
Not many would agree that Cockers is a yes man, not least the man himself! But then again Cockers is another who may be in bunker mode, and so not really in a position to influence Eddie in a positive way. The media have the man in their sights which only reinforces the problem that failed experiments have created. The natural reaction is to dig deeper in the bunker.

Eddie has not been wrong to experiment and is right to try to generate depth. The problem for me lies in sticking with players who underperform and systems that are neither working nor showing signs they could work.
Cockers isn’t the only one though and he does share a similar it’s my way or the high way to Eddie. Who ever is forward coach, Cockers or Plumtree why are they ignoring what is in front of them with the likes of the Vunipola brothers and the non selection of Earl, or Schonert or Rapava Ruskin.
I would say he has been forced to experiment with injuries but some of his choices have been interesting at best, and why he still has Tuilagi and May and others in there when Hassell Collins, Radwan, Sleightholme are tearing up the premiership beggars belief. This is what I mean by yes men people who just won’t point out to him what is blindingly obvious to others
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by LE18 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:08 pm
Grimlish wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:27 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:27 am Unfortunately Eddie isn’t going anywhere and he knows it. The RFU are saying they might just break even this year so they can’t afford to pay him off. On top of that the likes of Bill Sweeney have no respect for the fans or the club game, as shown in his recent testimony regarding Worcester and Wasps demise.
Eddie has surrounded himself with yes men both on and off the pitch who won’t say it as it is. Then you have the likes of Paul Grayson who can clearly see all the issues, but is concerned about being black listed by the RFU and thus it affecting his livelihood if he speaks out.
Not many would agree that Cockers is a yes man, not least the man himself! But then again Cockers is another who may be in bunker mode, and so not really in a position to influence Eddie in a positive way. The media have the man in their sights which only reinforces the problem that failed experiments have created. The natural reaction is to dig deeper in the bunker.

Eddie has not been wrong to experiment and is right to try to generate depth. The problem for me lies in sticking with players who underperform and systems that are neither working nor showing signs they could work.
Cockers isn’t the only one though and he does share a similar it’s my way or the high way to Eddie. Who ever is forward coach, Cockers or Plumtree why are they ignoring what is in front of them with the likes of the Vunipola brothers and the non selection of Earl, or Schonert or Rapava Ruskin.
I would say he has been forced to experiment with injuries but some of his choices have been interesting at best, and why he still has Tuilagi and May and others in there when Hassell Collins, Radwan, Sleightholme are tearing up the premiership beggars belief. This is what I mean by yes men people who just won’t point out to him what is blindingly obvious to others
Flats was pretty scathing about Jones last night on the ITV prem highlights show, Topsy very much in agreement, Flats is a delight to listen to, he says it as he sees it, England rubbish!
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Rugbygramps »

LE18 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:56 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:08 pm
Grimlish wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:27 pm
Not many would agree that Cockers is a yes man, not least the man himself! But then again Cockers is another who may be in bunker mode, and so not really in a position to influence Eddie in a positive way. The media have the man in their sights which only reinforces the problem that failed experiments have created. The natural reaction is to dig deeper in the bunker.

Eddie has not been wrong to experiment and is right to try to generate depth. The problem for me lies in sticking with players who underperform and systems that are neither working nor showing signs they could work.
Cockers isn’t the only one though and he does share a similar it’s my way or the high way to Eddie. Who ever is forward coach, Cockers or Plumtree why are they ignoring what is in front of them with the likes of the Vunipola brothers and the non selection of Earl, or Schonert or Rapava Ruskin.
I would say he has been forced to experiment with injuries but some of his choices have been interesting at best, and why he still has Tuilagi and May and others in there when Hassell Collins, Radwan, Sleightholme are tearing up the premiership beggars belief. This is what I mean by yes men people who just won’t point out to him what is blindingly obvious to others
Flats was pretty scathing about Jones last night on the ITV prem highlights show, Topsy very much in agreement, Flats is a delight to listen to, he says it as he sees it, England rubbish!
Totally agree about Flats, doesn’t have an alternative agenda and as you say says it like it is. Think he dovetails nicely with Topsy.
Scott1
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Scott1 »

Flats is better than Hartley! He completely bottled it post SA game!
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Grimlish »

I agree Flats and the Amazon team have done well - Hartley is still playing the role of former England Captain so feels the need to be diplomatic in public I guess. His flannelling suggested to me he was desperately trying NOT to say what he really thought.

The problem really isn’t the experimentation or building depth it’s the lack of a coherent framework for those new players to slot into. So they have no idea what’s really expected of them and fail to deliver their best, compounding the problem. For sure it’s a coaching problem not a player problem. But for me, sadly, it’s too late to change horses now. Better - tell Jones to stop messing around, put some structure in place in the game plan, & stop the Smith Farrell dual-role nonsense. The one place we do need to act now to build for the future is in finding an alternate 2nd LH in place of Mako. No longer does enough around the park to warrant carrying the risk he gets trounced in the scrum. It’s not just the SA scrummagers who have his number.

For all England were dire on Saturday and SA cd easily have scored more, two of their tries shouldn’t have stood, and the Etzebeth one was as blatant as you’ll ever see. Where was the captain in the ear of the ref forcing a review of that?
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by fentiger »

Borthwick in Telegraph and salary cap credits: https://archive.ph/nKFzr
wigworth
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by wigworth »

fentiger wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:34 pm Borthwick in Telegraph and salary cap credits: https://archive.ph/nKFzr
'Nine of England’s last 30 Test debutants have been representing Tigers at the time of being blooded by Eddie Jones' is certainly a very impressive feat for the club and hopefully serves to encourage the younger players in the Tiger's system.
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Re: England Squad - Autumn Internationals

Post by Cagey Tiger »

fentiger wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:34 pm Borthwick in Telegraph and salary cap credits: https://archive.ph/nKFzr
IIRC the RFU pay a lump sum to PRL(?) which is then split equally across all the clubs, regardless of how many players from each club is selected. It was initially supposed to be pro rata to the number of players from each club, but the clubs in the shape of PRL voted to give each club equal amounts 🙄
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