Promotion from the Championship

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Rugbygramps
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by Rugbygramps »

Old Hob wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:59 am Bath have won their court case and CAN build a permanent stand.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63314767
I am assuming that is to replace the one on the far side of the tv pictures.
Old Hob
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by Old Hob »

I would have thought so. The larger plan also includes "developing the riverside"; I have no idea what that means.
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TheChild
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by TheChild »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:52 am
TheChild wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:22 am
sk 88 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:19 pm That's a massive improvement & could really kick start development.

The 10k capacity doesn't need to be permanent. Bath's 10k isn't permanent, half of it comes down each year!

5k is a better capacity for clubs like Doncaster, Bedford, Coventry, Nottingham, Pirates to try & develop with good quality facilities to use in the Championship with the room to mount extra stands to get to 10k only after promotion is secured.

Also clubs further down the pyramid like Moseley (though they're fighting relegation from Nat 1 at the moment) can look at those rules as significantly more realistic & the 5k as a good target to get to just in the Championship.
Notts still have the option of Meadow Lane which is over 10k anyway. Lady Bay is on a flood plain which is why planning permission keeps getting refused (plus the sniffy locals don’t help) Our ground capacity at the minute is about 3.5k. Even 5k is a pipe dream and 10k isn’t happening. We go up and we’ll be back at Meadow Lane (provided the sinks align that is)
IIRC the the option on Meadow Lane expires at the end of this season.
Yup. This season is our only hope. But we’re actually winning so you never know…
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Deja vu...

Despite the new requirements. Ealing have failed in their attempts to qualify for promotion to the Premiership. Only other team to apply was Doncaster, they were approved, however they lie 5th in the league 23 points off the top, so pretty much as you were with an 11 team league next season...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
CrumblingTerrace
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by CrumblingTerrace »

Ealing have 2,000-odd seats. Their ground is not even close to meeting minimum standards for capacity. I don't know about the other criteria.

And yet the RFU's strategy is paradoxical. They want to, "Enable the ambition of clubs currently outside the Premiership to aspire to join the Premiership," but they put strict, arguably impractical criteria on what that ambition should look like.

To join the league, Ealing have to heavily invest in infrastructure that has no justification. What would they do with a 10,000-capacity stadium?
GB72
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by GB72 »

Thing is, I see that as part of the problem.

The premiership does not need more teams that bring in under 5000 fans each week. It needs clubs who focus as much on getting people through the turnstyles as it does on signing top players.

This is controversial I know but, to me, promotion should be not just about performance on the pitch. It should be coupled with a check that there is a sustainable business model bearing in mind the increases in wages that they are going to have to pay and, I would suggest, average gates of at least 7500. Unless they are in an area underreprested in the premiership (Ealing are not) then I cannot see the need to bring in more teams with nominal gate receipts.

Fully prepared to get flack for this view but if rugby is to grow, it needs to place more relliance on match day attendance and on what a team adds to the existing league.
CharlieTheTiger
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by CharlieTheTiger »

If the Prem is going to go to 10 teams this will help by stopping teams being promoted

Personally I think a 12 team would be best with a schedule as per below

Move the Under 20 6 nations to later in season - Have a Prem Cup where we have two groups of 6 based on generating derby games where clubs have a regular schedule so they can keep generating revenue. Also Prem Cup can have a QF stage that the losers go into a plate competition so that double header semi-final and final weekends can happen as I believe a lot of people enjoyed the old Cardiff Double Header Semi-Final Day.

Int Rest weekends are clear and are setup so teams can the opportunity to play full strength against each other at least once a season. Also bring in 4 Derby Weekends (or close as possible) with intention to find bigger stadiums to generate buzz in the league. This schedule means no prem games are played on international weekends (but Int player rest would be required)

02/09/2023 7 Prem Int Rest
09/09/2023 7 Prem Int Rest
16/09/2023 7 Prem
23/09/2023 7 Prem
30/09/2023 7 Prem
07/10/2023 7 Prem
14/10/2023 7 Prem
21/10/2023 7 Prem Derby Day Weekend
28/10/2023 7 Prem Int Rest
04/11/2023 7 prem Cup Group AI
11/11/2023 7 prem Cup Group AI
18/11/2023 7 prem Cup Group AI
25/11/2023 7 prem Cup Group AI
02/12/2023 7 Prem Int Rest
09/12/2023 7 EC Group
16/12/2023 7 EC Group
23/12/2023 7 Prem 2nd Derby Day
30/12/2023 7 Prem
06/01/2024 7 Prem
13/01/2024 7 EC Group
20/01/2024 7 EC Group
27/01/2024 7 Prem Int Rest
03/02/2024 7 prem Cup Group 6N
10/02/2024 7 prem Cup Group 6N
17/02/2024 7 Prem Int Rest
24/02/2024 7 prem Cup Group QF 6N
02/03/2024 7 Prem Int Rest
09/03/2024 7 prem Cup Group SF 6N
16/03/2024 7 Rest 6N
23/03/2024 7 prem Cup Group F
30/03/2024 7 EC Last 16
06/04/2024 7 EC Last 8 6N U20
13/04/2024 7 Prem 6N U20 Int Rest
20/04/2024 7 Prem 6N U20
27/04/2024 7 Prem 6N U20 Derby Day Weekend
04/05/2024 7 Prem 6N U20
11/05/2024 7 EC Last SF
18/05/2024 7 Prem
25/05/2024 7 Prem 2nd Derby Day
01/06/2024 7 EC F
08/06/2024 7 0
15/06/2024 7 0
22/06/2024 7 0 Int Rest
29/06/2024 7 0 Int Rest
06/07/2024 7 0 SI
13/07/2024 7 0 SI
20/07/2024 7 0 SI
27/07/2024 7 0 SI
03/08/2024 7 0 Int Rest
10/08/2024 7 0 Int Rest
17/08/2024 7 0 Int Rest
24/08/2024 7 0 Int Rest

Apologies formatting not great
Tiglon
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by Tiglon »

GB72 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:56 am Thing is, I see that as part of the problem.

The premiership does not need more teams that bring in under 5000 fans each week. It needs clubs who focus as much on getting people through the turnstyles as it does on signing top players.

This is controversial I know but, to me, promotion should be not just about performance on the pitch. It should be coupled with a check that there is a sustainable business model bearing in mind the increases in wages that they are going to have to pay and, I would suggest, average gates of at least 7500. Unless they are in an area underreprested in the premiership (Ealing are not) then I cannot see the need to bring in more teams with nominal gate receipts.

Fully prepared to get flack for this view but if rugby is to grow, it needs to place more relliance on match day attendance and on what a team adds to the existing league.
Completely agree, clubs need to be sustainable and having a sufficient ground capacity and attendances are a huge part of that.
CrumblingTerrace
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by CrumblingTerrace »

The RFU are requiring Championships clubs to take a huge financial risk in order to join the Premiership, at the very same time that Wasps and Worcester have disappeared, Exeter are selling off their assets, Leicester are needing £13m of urgent funding.

The league is close to financial disaster. A sustainable business model and an RFU-approved business model are not the same thing.
Hot_Charlie
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by Hot_Charlie »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:41 pm The RFU are requiring Championships clubs to take a huge financial risk in order to join the Premiership, at the very same time that Wasps and Worcester have disappeared, Exeter are selling off their assets, Leicester are needing £13m of urgent funding.

The league is close to financial disaster. A sustainable business model and an RFU-approved business model are not the same thing.
One could argue the Ealing, with an octogenarian benefactor and no other apparent source of funding are Worcester mark two.

Except without a stadium!
bendy
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by bendy »

Rumours circulating that Ealing might have a route into the Welsh set-up rather than the Prem.

All seems a bit pie in the sky at the moment, but could be interesting. Certainly as a first step towards a joint English-Welsh league structure.
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by tigerburnie »

bendy wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:00 am Rumours circulating that Ealing might have a route into the Welsh set-up rather than the Prem.

All seems a bit pie in the sky at the moment, but could be interesting. Certainly as a first step towards a joint English-Welsh league structure.
Not too sure about that rumour, it can only happen if the RFU sanction it under current rules/laws, cannot see that happening.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Hot_Charlie
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by Hot_Charlie »

bendy wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:00 am Rumours circulating that Ealing might have a route into the Welsh set-up rather than the Prem.

All seems a bit pie in the sky at the moment, but could be interesting. Certainly as a first step towards a joint English-Welsh league structure.
No one has any idea what the Welsh set up might be at the moment. It could all be in pieces by Easter.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

tigerburnie wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:37 am
bendy wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:00 am Rumours circulating that Ealing might have a route into the Welsh set-up rather than the Prem.

All seems a bit pie in the sky at the moment, but could be interesting. Certainly as a first step towards a joint English-Welsh league structure.
Not too sure about that rumour, it can only happen if the RFU sanction it under current rules/laws, cannot see that happening.
Yes but it actually solves a headache for the RFU, so they may do.

Wales it seems are struggling to fund 4 provinces, at least 1 may go under.

Ealing can't meet the RFU requirements for the prem, but have a sugar daddy wanting to invest so think they can afford top flight rugby.

If Ealing replace a Welsh team in the URC it means WRU may be able to afford to keep more players.

So why might the RFU agree to it.
1. The RFU hasn't got a great relationship with the Championship. Especially clubs in the championship interested in promotion, but all round lack of money and communication.
2. There has been from Championship Clubs plenty of issues raised with why Wasps (and not happening now but possibly could have been Worcester too) should get a spot in their division without them getting into the Prem. That means they either stop promotion up or relegate extra teams down.
3. Wasps have been granted a place by the RFU, but have the Championship worked out if they are relegating more, stopping promotion? Not yet.

So IF the RFU allow Ealing to the RFU (who are a pain to them as they keep winning, but can't be promoted) then the RFU have the perfect place to put Wasps, as it is they will probably relegate an extra team who has been playing week in week out and cause resentment at another edict passed down from above causing the Championship pain.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
tigerburnie
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Re: Promotion from the Championship

Post by tigerburnie »

The Ealing benefactor is apparently an octogenarian, whose support may well not last for long, they average around 1000 fans at their home games, so are maybe not quite as financially stable as some may think.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
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