Worcester’s woes

[Rugbygramps]

Not sure that clubs would have many spaces to take on players from Worcester. Also, they may not have the money to afford further additions to what they already have in place for the new season. A real difficult time for clubs.

Obviously there would have to be some amendments made to the cap for this season. But if it came to it better that than a whole squad of players out of work through no fault of their own.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Some rumors I've heard is that both Wasps and Worcester have been trying to avoid administration till the season is underway, something about league rules meaning automatic relegation before the fixtures were announced but only a 35 point deduction if within the season window. Which with no relegation helps secure them Prem rugby and not have a drastic reduction in income so they may survive.

[loretta]

Some rumors I've heard is that both Wasps and Worcester have been trying to avoid administration till the season is underway, something about league rules meaning automatic relegation before the fixtures were announced but only a 35 point deduction if within the season window. Which with no relegation helps secure them Prem rugby and not have a drastic reduction in income so they may survive.

While that appears to be a possibility, looking at rule 5, however the fixtures have been out for weeks. Plus, they'll have to have access to cash from somewhere to keep things ticking over.

[Rugbygramps]

Some rumors I've heard is that both Wasps and Worcester have been trying to avoid administration till the season is underway, something about league rules meaning automatic relegation before the fixtures were announced but only a 35 point deduction if within the season window. Which with no relegation helps secure them Prem rugby and not have a drastic reduction in income so they may survive.

That would make sense if correct, but if they are losing money on a monthly basis would surely only be delaying the inevitable.
From what other posters have said re the Worcester situation it would appear there has been some asset stripping by the parent company

[Old Hob]

I hope this can be resolved although the rumours do not sound encouraging, however, what ever the out come of this, both Wuss and the Wasps situation need investigating and precautions, or a system to help, must be put in place. It seems nothing was learnt from the previous similar problems, of which London Welsh is but one example, rugby is now a business and it has to learn and be run properly.

The Tigers' model of running the club as a business (i.e . living within your income) was successful at first but then swiftly overtaken by the "sugar daddy" model which is why the game is in such a pickle. Massive wage inflation, far beyond what the clubs can really bear, is, I believe, the primary reason.

[fentiger]

I hope this can be resolved although the rumours do not sound encouraging, however, what ever the out come of this, both Wuss and the Wasps situation need investigating and precautions, or a system to help, must be put in place. It seems nothing was learnt from the previous similar problems, of which London Welsh is but one example, rugby is now a business and it has to learn and be run properly.

The Tigers' model of running the club as a business (i.e . living within your income) was successful at first but then swiftly overtaken by the "sugar daddy" model which is why the game is in such a pickle. Massive wage inflation, far beyond what the clubs can really bear, is, I believe, the primary reason.

Mmm, now remind me, who and when did this start

[sam16111986]

Talk is now administration

Hmm wonder who has cap left to scoop up some good players (Not to sound like a vulture)
Ollie Lawreance would be very good

I do feel like a vulture but there are unavoidably some very good players in that squad.

Ted Hill, Ollie Lawrence and Fin Smith have such high ceilings they'd be good signings for anyone.

Justin Clegg is IMO a very underrated second row who could be fantastic in the right setup.

I'd imagine Sale would rip your arm off for Chudley considering they've signed Simpson as cover.

Francois Venter is a somewhat unsung 12/13 who organises the midfield very well too.

Most those are in positions where Tigers have ample depth though. Noah Howard could be a good understudy to Steward for the right price? Could Kvesic be an option with van Staden gone? Not the same class of course but covers 7/8 and wouldn't cost a fortune these days.

I'd only go for Kvesic if we felt Ilione wasn't ready for regular first team action.

I'd rather take Jamie Shillcock as a 10/15 option. Be a perfect replacement for Hegarty, Shillcock is seriously underrated in my opinion. Great all round skills plus pace, step and a big boot. Working with Gopperth, Burns and Pollard would be great for his development at 25 he can still improve and has years left in the tank.

Seb Atkinson started to get some Wuss first team game time last season. Add him to the stable of young centres we have.

Loïc Keasey the England under 18 hooker would be a handy grab, he's also a former national age grade judo champion. That would be my main aim of players contracts were being voided, hoover up age grade talent in areas we don't have depth or particularly highly rated players as I think our first team squad is actually in a good place and I can't imagine we have much cap left to throw around.

If the PRL adapt the cap and change the spread of the TV money then maybe it's a bit different.

[RichG]

Desperately don’t want to see Worcester or Wasps go but it’s completely unfair on all the other clubs (& every other business) if they get away with not paying taxes and continue as is. According to Premiership Rugby site Worcester’s attendance figures for last season totalled 83,817 which if average ticket price was £40 (will be much less I would think) only gives gates receipts of £3.4 million. Not difficult to see how big a mess they are in & now seemingly have no assets. No chance of any secured loan.

[bendy]

Very worrying.

I think this talk of 'which Worcester / Wasps players could we snap up?' is missing the point a bit.

Two fewer home games for everyone else in the league, less revenue from TV matches etc could be the start of the avalanche.

I would much, much rather everyone who's currently registered at those clubs, finish the season at those clubs. If they don't, I really don't think it's a valid conversation as to where Koch or Lawrence go next.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Might be 2 less games, but potentially 2 less games without English Internationals.

Unfortunately it might take a more established team going bust to wake everyone up.

Is there a fit & proper owners rule from the league?

[Scott1]

Would clubs have to refund/adjust the price of their ST too?

[LE18]

I hope this can be resolved although the rumours do not sound encouraging, however, what ever the out come of this, both Wuss and the Wasps situation need investigating and precautions, or a system to help, must be put in place. It seems nothing was learnt from the previous similar problems, of which London Welsh is but one example, rugby is now a business and it has to learn and be run properly.

The Tigers' model of running the club as a business (i.e . living within your income) was successful at first but then swiftly overtaken by the "sugar daddy" model which is why the game is in such a pickle. Massive wage inflation, far beyond what the clubs can really bear, is, I believe, the primary reason.

Excuse my ignorance but dont both Worcs and Wasps have Sugar Daddies, if so why are they not paying off these debts, Worcs is only small compared to Wasps?

[TigerFeetSteve]

I hope this can be resolved although the rumours do not sound encouraging, however, what ever the out come of this, both Wuss and the Wasps situation need investigating and precautions, or a system to help, must be put in place. It seems nothing was learnt from the previous similar problems, of which London Welsh is but one example, rugby is now a business and it has to learn and be run properly.

The Tigers' model of running the club as a business (i.e . living within your income) was successful at first but then swiftly overtaken by the "sugar daddy" model which is why the game is in such a pickle. Massive wage inflation, far beyond what the clubs can really bear, is, I believe, the primary reason.

Excuse my ignorance but dont both Worcs and Wasps have Sugar Daddies, if so why are they not paying off these debts, Worcs is only small compared to Wasps?

Wasps sugar daddy is not rich enough to pay it off

[Old Hob]

And, according to the unoffy, neither of the Worcester owners have deep enough pockets either as well as no rugby connexions.

[jgriffin]

And, according to the unoffy, neither of the Worcester owners have deep enough pockets either as well as no rugby connexions.

The suspicion is that this has always been the model purpose. Clubs are commodities, and come as a parcel. Debts accumulate while pocketed revenues float off, at some point the parcel is opened and the sale starts. Classic hedge fund, but the basic model now for FT100 too, debt loading with hived off dividends, then refinance, sell, etc.